What If We Already Lived Together Before Marriage?
July 24, 2008
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Posted by Ray Fowler
Living Together Before Marriage Series:
● Statistics on Living Together Before Marriage
● Scriptures on Living Together Before Marriage
● Living Together Without Sex
● What If We Already Lived Together Before Marriage?
“What if we already lived together before marriage?” This is a question I am sometimes asked when presenting the scriptural and statistical reasons for not living together before marriage. If the Bible says not to live together before marriage, and statistics demonstrate a high correlation of undesirable outcomes for those who do, what if you already lived together before marriage? Is it too late for you? Is there anything you can do? The answers are: “No, it is not too late,” and “Yes, there is something you can do.” God reveals himself in the Bible as a God of grace, and even when we fail, we can still trust God to help us.
First of all, as far as breaking God’s commands in this area, we must understand why God gives us his commands in the first place. God gives us his commands to protect us from harm and to lead us in the way that is right. So even God’s commands are an example of his love and grace to us. However, God’s greatest expression of love and grace was given at the cross. When we break God’s commands, we sin against God, but God offers us forgiveness through his Son, Jesus Christ. When Jesus died on the cross, he paid the penalty for our sin. When we confess our sin to God, putting our faith and trust in Christ, God forgives us and cleanses us. So if you lived together before marriage, the first thing you should do is simply confess your sin to God and put your trust in Jesus Christ who died for your sin.
Secondly, as far as the statistics go, people who have lived together before marriage often wonder, “Is there a way of avoiding the undesirable outcomes reported in the statistics?” There are three things we should try to grasp here.
- The consequences of sin: We should understand that even when God forgives us, we still often suffer the consequences for our sin. The repentant thief may still have to spend time behind bars. And the couple that lived together before marriage may struggle with certain issues in marriage as a result.
- The challenges of marriage: We should also understand that every marriage poses certain challenges. Obviously, we should try to bring as little baggage into a marriage as possible, but we are all sinners, and so we all bring the consequences of various choices into our marriages. And that brings us to the third point, which is:
- The power of prayer: I believe that any couple that puts Christ at the center of their marriage and asks God to help them can overcome the particular challenges they face in their marriage, whether those challenges arise from living together before marriage or from some other wrong choices they made along the way. It may not be easy, but God will help you if you ask him.
What if you already lived together before marriage? Confess your sin to God, put your trust in Christ, and ask God to help you. God is a God of grace who will pardon your past and help you in the present. He’s got a pretty good future waiting for you, too!
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Well, that concludes this series on living together before marriage. I hope you found the series helpful and encourage you to pass the posts on to others who may benefit from the material. As always, your thoughts and comments are welcome. If you haven’t done so already, click to subscribe by email or feed reader so that you don’t miss any future posts.
Link to all the posts in the series: Living Together Before Marriage Series
Categories: Marriage
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Everyone I know who lived together before marriage is together and all of us who married first are divorced. Why? Because the people who lived together purchased their home and other items and were set when they got married. We who did the wait until we get married faced so much financial stress that it brike up our mariages.
Lisa – Some people do rush into marriage before they are financially ready. But living together first is not the solution. The solution is to wait on marriage until you are ready.
I am sorry your marriage did not work out, and I am glad your friends are still together. But the statistics still show that 80 percent of couples who live together will break up either before the wedding or afterwards in divorce. Living together before marriage is not the wise thing to do statistically, nor is it the right thing to do scripturally.
What do you recommend if you are living together and not married, and the situation is complicated because you share a car and need to help each other with the children? But I am requiring we seek pre-marital and he buy me a ring before I marry him. What do we do in the meantime? If the answer is move out, then how do we explain it to the children?
Lisette – This is a very important question and a situation that many couples are dealing with. Rather than just give you a quick answer in the comments, I would like to spend some time writing an additional article on the topic for this series. I will try to post it next week on the blog and will post a link here in the comments when I do.
Update 10/23: – Sorry, I didn’t get to the post this week. I will try again next week.
I enjoyed your articles about living together before marriage, the Scriptures, and the stats, and the last one about those who have already lived together and gotten married. One very important thing that I see to be missing from that last article is: for a more complete healing between the two that have decided to get married is a mutual brokenness and apology (making amends) to each other. I believe it should begin with the man and go something like this: “Honey, I want you to know that I am really sorry for dishonoring you by reaching for and taking from you what was not lawfully mine. You weren’t my wife when I kissed you the way I did and touched you like I did and it was wrong. From God’s perspective you weren’t mine to have and to hold at that time because you weren’t my wife yet. I’ve come into agreement with God, I see that I dishonored you sinning against God. I am asking you, will you please forgive me?” –I believe and know that God does something beautiful in the spiritual realm and in the souls of those who make amends like this. My wife and I, with God’s help saved our kiss for the altar of Holy Matrimony, but have a similar but different scenario of making amends to each other concerning our past relationships. If you’re interested, let me know and I will share it. Sincerely and in His Mercies, Brian M. Richey
dear ray, I should have asked you and I am asking you now: did what I shared on the 26th of October make sense to you and do you agree? I believe it is also important for us to obey what God is saying in Holy Scripture (St. James 5:16) by praying for each other after we’ve confessed our sins and made amends, that we may be healed. What are your thoughts on this?
brian – Sorry I didn’t get back to responding sooner — I try not to do too much blogging over the weekend. I thought your comments were excellent. It is important to confess our sin to each other as well as to God, and I did not cover that in the original article. I like what you said, and I may go ahead and update the original article to include this important thought. Thanks for commenting and sharing your insights with us.
Thanks for responding and for the encouraging words.
My fiance and I are currently living together and are getting married in two months. We are Christians and are currently attending Calvary Chapel in Fort Lauderdale, FL. We met with one of the Pastors yesterday regarding our wedding and premarital counseling and he basically said that the church would not marry us because we are currently living together before Marriage. He started passing judgment on us based on this and it really hurt. I think we are trying to take the right steps in our relationship and growth as one with God. I don’t understand why things happened this way with our church. He asked us to move away from each other until the wedding and then he would be able to marry us, but it was a stretch for him to do so. Unfortunately, our finances do not allow us to do this since I was recently laid off from my job. He said if we are unable to move away from each other that we would have to go find another church to marry us. I find this very hard to comprehend. I am very confused and would like some help with this.
Jonathan – Thank you for your comment and question. And congratulations on your upcoming wedding! I wish you and your fiance all the best.
One of the most difficult parts for me about being a pastor are situations just like the one you have described. As a pastor you want to help people, and so you feel drawn to people’s needs, but at the same time you need to uphold certain standards. How can I preach with integrity about staying apart until you are married if I go ahead and marry every couple that comes to me that is living together? Or, how can I teach my own children the importance about waiting until marriage if they see me violating that standard with wedding after wedding?
Is there no way you could move out and live with a friend for a couple months until the wedding? Calvary Chapel is a large church. Perhaps the pastors could ask if there was someone willing to put you up for a couple months. It is worth a shot. But you have to be willing.
I had a young couple come to me just a few months ago wanting me to marry them. They also were living together. I counseled them to move apart, but they were not willing. They still wanted me to counsel and marry them, but they were not willing to follow the first counsel I gave them! My heart ached to tell them no, and I lost sleep over it, but I believe it was the right decision.
Jonathan, I know this has been hurtful to you, but trust me, pastors do not make these decisions lightly. Let me put this as gently as I can, but remember that you and your fiance by choosing to live together before marriage have put your pastor in an awkward position, not the other way around.
By the way, I used to live in Plantation, FL just outside of Fort Lauderdale, and I know Calvary Chapel well. I have always appreciated the pastors there, and I hope you won’t let this incident keep you from going back there to worship. Your pastors are just trying to help you make right choices that will help you down the road.
If you want to talk more about this, feel free to leave another comment, or you can always email me (see personal profile page above for address). God bless! Ray Fowler
Hi Ray,
Thank you for your articles, they are informative, Biblical and practical. I have a question about living together. My girlfriend and I are both divorced with 6 kids in total. we don’t have sex, yet live together. We plan to be married in 2 months. We have been told to split and live apart till then though. I don’t really see that the living under the same roof is sin, but do understand the point of leading others astray and we’d like to be blameless. Your point of mocking marriage is new and provoking also. There is some practicality issues of course, it’s not like just moving in with a friend, there is kids to take care of too. Any suggestions?
Also what about the idea of swapping this house? To live separately, if one parent has their kids here and the other person lives elsewhere (at a friends) then parent 2 lives in the house the next week with their kids while parent 1 leaves to a friends without kids. it would help if kid schedules lined up perfectly, but does this address the issue, or is it just cutting corners in God’s eyes?
Thanks, K
Kevin – Thanks for stopping by and commenting. I have been meaning to write something up on what to do when kids are involved and just haven’t gotten around to it. So, I will give a quick answer here.
Obviously it is best not to get into the situation of living together with kids to begin with. But once you do, what is the best solution? If it is wrong to live together, and it is wrong not to be there for your kids, what do you do? I think you begin by admitting that you have gotten yourself into a situation where there is no perfect answer, and then you work to find the best answer going forward. Working towards marriage is certainly a big part of the solution.
In the meantime, as far as the kids, I would talk to those who are old enough to understand, and explain to them what God says about marriage and living together. I would tell them that I messed up and this is not the way it’s supposed to be. I would tell them that I have asked God’s forgiveness and explain what I am doing to try and make things right. If the house swapping idea works, this may be a great way to show your kids by example how serious you are about seeking to obey God’s commands.
I wish you all the best and pray that God will show you and your fiancee what is the best road forward. I also would encourage you both to get pre-marital counseling if you haven’t already. Premarital counseling is always good, but it is even more important when you are dealing with blended families.
God bless,
Ray
Dear Ray,
Thanks for your ministry. This is an area that has been sadly lacking in ministry. My hsuband and I were converted 10 yrs after marriage and had lived together and have this issue to deal with. Not only us but five of our sons and our daughter have fallen into this lifestyle.
My husband who is a professed Christian feels it wasn’t wrong because “we were meant to be together”. I feel differently. Looking back I feel my choice was taken from me. We have had terrible times in our marriage and even now have issues. I have really struggled but trust in God always and realize divorce is not an option though we have had several separations in the past.
I rushed into this relationship at 18 yrs of age responding to my husbands advances towards me. Having lived an immoral life beforehand as had my husband we were at the mercy of our passions.
One must repent to God and each other for this sin. This is the first step towards building your life by Gods grace on Gods Word. God Bless you and please pray for me and my husband. It is only by Gods Amazing Grace!
Lisa – Thank you for sharing your story; I trust it will help others who come across this article. I commend you for working through the difficulties in your marriage. I do believe God’s grace is bigger than our sin, and there is always a way to move forward when our lives our centered on Him. God bless you and your husband, and all the best for the future!
Hey Ray,
I really enjoyed your “living together before marriage” series. I have been trying to find the scriptures that would guide me in my questions over this difficult subject. But, all it really is is the common sense God gave to us. It’s a lot like what you said,and what I have strongly believed for years, just because everyone else is doing it , doesn’t make it right. And remaining blameless before God is another thing that would be compromised if one entered into a noncommittal relationship and shared a living space with a member of the opposite sex. I never would have thought of it as mocking marriage, but that does make sooo much sense and is very true. After all, if you aren’t ready to get married, yet you think you’re ready to jump ahead of yourselves and live under the same roof, what’s stopping you from also violating the marriage bed. It’s very self centered and “flesh” centered. Doing what is easy is never an option. In fact God tells us to “suffer” for the cause, to suffer the way Jesus did. Jesus didn’t take the easy route, no sir. He stuck it out when no one else around him would agree with him – even the religious leaders of that time, the most well respected and honored of all- and they too were just as stunned at what Jesus had to say about God and the laws as anyone else who was within earshot. And you know what, they killed him over it. But because Jesus was the awesome son of God and remained BLAMELESS before God, he was raised again in just three days and returned to heaven, where we will one day see him again and celebrate with him over our victorious triumph over sin and death, if we will only trust and obey God’s wonderful Words of Life. It just proves that “doing what is right is never easy, but it’s always right.” Now I just have to convince my boyfriend of this…
Jessica – Thanks for sharing. You will never regret following God’s word. Stick to your convictions, and all the best!
Dear Ray,
I am living with my boyfriend of 6 years. We got together when I was pregnant with my first daugter (he is not her father) and began living together shortly after that. He treats her as if she were his own and she calls him Daddy. We also have a child together and I am concerned about the situation for many reasons. First of all, I know it is wrong to live with a someone you are not married to. But unfortunately he does not believe in God. He allows the children to go to church and a Christian school and actually really likes the school. He never tells the children that they are wrong for believing in God and will even come to church with us occasionally. My question is, what should I do? It is wrong to stay in our current situation, but is it right for me to leave him? I know the Bible says not to be unequally yoked. But I also feel that is would be terrible for my daughters to not have their father in the home. He wants to get married and has said that he will have no problem with me raising the children as Christians. Please let me know what you think.
Thank you!
Cindy – Thank you for sharing your situation. As I am sure you have already figured out, there is no perfect solution to your situation. It is wrong for you to continue living with your boyfriend, and it is wrong for you as a Christian to marry him as a non-believer. And it would be disruptive to the children to have him leave the home. But I feel that would be the best thing for you to do at this time.
You are in what seems to be an impossible situation, and yet nothing is impossible with God. However, God sometimes waits for us to make the hard choice of obedience before he does the impossible. So I would encourage you to take that step of faith and separate from your boyfriend. I know God can bless obedience, but we cannot ask him to bless our disobedience.
I hope this counsel is helpful to you, and I pray that God will show you the way as you seek to follow him.
First I have to say I agree with everything you teach, yes living together and fornication is wrong! However, what about people who are in situations where they can not find other options. I recently left a marriage that was very abusive to my children. My husband (a minister) was using prostitutes, and extrememly abusive to my children from my previous marriage. I left him with no money, and moved in with another man. I hate the fact that I am living with this other man, but I am currnetly back in college, working, but not making enough money to even pay rent, and have other children to take care of. I feel I am in a situation of sin, but have no family I can stay with and absolutely no where else to live. Even with the option of public asistance, isn’t that a sin as well? I also know that since I do work and bring in income, I probably coudln’t even get the help I would need to live alone. So although I do not feel right about living with my current partner, I really can not find other options other than marriage, and being divorced again really scars me. What do you feel God wants in my situation?
Jessica – I believe when we are willing to do things God’s way, God will always open the door for us. I would encourage you to talk with your pastor about your situation and see if the church can help in any way. I know they would also want to help you do the right thing.
Hi, I live in Malta, a country where divorce is not legal. No person can get a divorse. Couples who can no longer live with each other can only obtain a legal seperation from the courts. So Malta is full of couples who through a legal system cannot re-marry because though they are legaly seperated cannot re-marry. So that creates another problem. Stay single or cohabit with your partner which thousands do setteling down with a new partner and having children but cannot marry the one they love. Question, what would you say to such a couple who become christians under such conditions and having lived together for eight years and being pregnant before becoming a christian? This couple are now doing everything they can to obtain an annulment which can take a very long time in the least. And may not even be granted. What is your advice? I am a pastor.
Kenneth – Although the legal technicalities may vary from nation to nation, I still believe God’s Word is clear. A non-married couple should not be living together as husband and wife. I feel for the couple’s situation which you have described to me. Have they tried taking the step of faith and obedience by choosing not to live together as husband and wife? Perhaps God will honor that decision by revealing a better way for them. I pray God will give you his wisdom as you pastor them through this difficult situation.
Is anyone still following through with this particular post? My 21-year-old daughter is a Christian and was raised in the church, suffered through her father’s infidelity, our divorce, and his remarriage to the woman (pregnant by now) that he had the affair with. I am remarried to a difficult man, who tends to be verbally and emotionally abusive. My daughter has been dating a young man for 3 years who is not a Christian and was not raised in the church. He has told her that he will not get married without living with the person first. She agrees, citing what I’ve been through as her excuse. What do I do or say from here?
Angie – I am sorry to hear of your situation. Your daughter needs to look at what God’s word tells her is right and not base her decisions on human experience. Yes, there are bad marriages and marriages that fail, but that does not mean we should disobey God’s commands which are meant for our good. I pray that she will make the right decision and for the right reason, out of love for God who created her and sent his Son to die for her.
I grew up in the church, as did my boyfriend. When we met, neither of us was attending church regularly. After dating only 6 months, we moved in together to save money. The problem is-I was only 19 (him 22) then, and had no idea that over 3 years later we’d remain unmarried. We didn’t want to marry originally because I was in school, but when I finished he started back at school. Since then, I have moved across the country with him for him to go to school, bought a house, we never did start going to church (I do shiftwork, and he works opposite weekends) and despite having the money aside for a ring for 2 months, he has yet to propose! We have a tight budget, and couldn’t afford to live separate. I have felt increasing anxiety about this, but everytime I bring up marriage now, he says I’m nagging and that it only makes him want to wait longer. All of our family asks us when we’ll be married, and he was heckled to no end when I recently caught my friend’s bouquet at her wedding-but still no proposal. What can I do to right this situation?
Alexi – Sadly, your story is all too familiar. I know this is difficult to hear right now, but your boyfriend does not sound like he wants to marry you any time soon. Either way, you should not be living together before marriage. I would encourage you to move apart. I know it sounds impossible financially, but take that step of faith and ask God to help you. Go and talk with a pastor at a local church and see if they can help you get set up with a new living situation. Right now, more than anything, you need to put Christ at the center of your life, and seek God’s will first. I pray that God will help you with your situation.
Ok, So I was looking on here to find biblical references regarding living together before marriage to share with my kids. I have to say, how judgemental I find this to be, and how skewed your thought seems to be. The Christ that I serve began a new covenent with his death and ressurection. We are not Jews and are not held to jewish law. Your statements about “it being a sin” are not biblically backed. They are based on the old covenent not the new. I was really hoping to find some good biblical references that I could share with my children that come from the new testament and were not either taken out of context or skewed to one mans definitions. I did not find that here. “All things are lawful to me, all things are not expedient for me” is the best I could find. Sad that there arent many pastors out there that are confident enough in their ministries to just tell the truth. What harm can come from only using God’s word and HIS definitions? Why arent there more ministers out there that understand and stand fast in their determination to let God’s word stand for itself? You never addressed the fact that Jesus and his enterouge (which included several women) co-habitated on the many journeys of his ministry here. Neither did you address that ALL our sin is forgiven…the past, the present and the future: when we accept Christ’s sacrifice and the reasons we needed it in the 1st place. I am disappointed because I am trying to raise completely biblical children and I keep running into the walls of appearances being 1st priority and false doctrines that allow the churches of this world to hold the stance of better than, or “you’re not educated enough to understand” or some other form of judgement against the people they are shepherding. My God is not a respector of persons in any way, shape or form. ALL of us are sinners in need of His grace, ALL of us will continually fall short of His will for us BUT…He loved ALL of us enough to sacrifice his Son so he can have a relationship with us. “…by faith, not of works lest any man should boast”.It’s not about what we do or dont do….its about Who we serve and accept as Lord. Period.
Mishy – I am sorry you feel offended by this series of posts, but I believe the Scriptures are quite clear on this. I have tried to share what the Bible says as much as possible rather than just share my own opinions.
P.S. If you re-read the post above, you will notice that I do speak about forgiveness in Christ. We are all sinners in need of Christ’s forgiveness.
Hello,
I’ve been reading the above referenced threads and was wondering can you provide any New Testament references with regard to living together?
Alex – I would point you to the second post in this series titled: Scriptures on Living Together Before Marriage
Dear Mr. Fowler, I stumbled across this article while researching your name and I’m a very confused believer; my Fiance, Brian & I have been living together for 10 years now.
we very much want to marry, but cannot financially. Here’s why: I’m on SSI and Medicaid and have had 2 heart attacks and one mini-stroke, as well as 4 mental illness diagnoses from my extensive abusive history; Brian is employed but if we marry, SSI will take 1/2 of my check & I will lose ALL of my medical coverage. Brian’s medical from work will not cover all my medications and medical care too, it’s just not enough. Secondly, how did Isaac & Rebekah marry? Did they have a public wedding ceremony? As I understand it, Isaac simply took Rebekah into Sarah’s tent and he “took Rebekah and she became his wife(Genesis 24:67). I can find nowhere in the Bible where public wedding ceremonies were held, or how, except for the story of the 10 virgins and that was not at all clear about the mariage ceremony. Where the Bible does mention marriage, like Solomon’s, or David’s, it tells nothing about a marriage ceremony at all. Can you assist me in finding further information as to HOW a marriage ceremony was conducted?? I would be so very grateful!!
Thank you for words of Wisdom and your knowledge that I’ve read here!!
Sincerely, Sunny
Sunny – Thank you for sharing. You have a very difficult situation. I don’t know the solution, but I know God does, and I also know he does not want you to live together unmarried. Perhaps you won’t find the solution until you take that step of faith of either marrying or moving apart, and then trusting God to supply the answers.
As far as Isaac and Rebekah (Genesis 24), there is no question that they were married and not just living together. Abraham’s servant paid the wedding dowry to her family as was customary in that day. Rebekah agreed and her family released her to go back to be Isaac’s wife.
Wedding traditions vary from culture to culture, but a marriage is always based on a public vow of lifetime faithfulness witnessed and confirmed by the community. It is more than just romance or a living arrangement. It is a legal relationship recognized by the community that provides stability to society and protection for spouse and children.
I hope that helps, and I pray you and your fiance will find God’s solution for your situation.
Ray,
Thank you for posting this article. It was exactly what I was looking for tonight. I have a very similar situation to those who posted above. I was a member of the mormon church for 18 years of my life. I began to date my fiancee who was a Christian. We had many serious late night talks about religion. I began to question my own beliefs and left the mormon church. This also meant leaving behind my parents and three younger siblings as well as many friends who no longer respected me. I have attended other churches since I became a Christian and fully believe in Christ and his sacrifice. However, although my fiancee and I knew it was wrong moved in together for the past two years for financial reasons. When I left the mormon church I was on my own and had to grow up and learn how to financially as well as emotionally support myself at a young age. Money has been tight since then and we thought this would help take some of that burden off my shoulders. We have talked about the fact that living together is wrong several times but never found a way to solve the problem. He proposed last June and we thought if we got married that would solve the problem but now we are four months from getting married and we would both like to repent of this sin we have been committing and move into our marriage with God on our side. This is extremely important to both of us considering we do not always have the support from my family that would be desired. We have made the choice to move apart until the wedding. My fiancee and I have prayed for two weeks straight that something will work out and I can find a place to stay for the remainder of the time. We live in a College town so mid semester is not the best time to find somewhere to live. I am attending school which is very expensive and I only have time for a part time job.I have become frustrated because we are trying to do the right thing but I cannot find a place to stay that I can afford and that I feel would be an uplifting environment for me to grow in. I am also having a hard time forgiving myself for getting into this situation and knowing God really will forgive me. If you have any ideas let me know. Thank you for you words.
Kylie
Kylie – Thank you for sharing about your situation. I commend you and your fiance for making the difficult decision to move apart until the wedding. I guarantee you will not regret it. It will also be a powerful testimony to your family, friends and any future children you may have. I would encourage you to talk to your church and see if they can help you find a place to stay until you get married. Perhaps a church family will take you in as a ministry to you and your fiance and to help you as you prepare for a lifetime of living together as husband and wife.
I enjoyed your post. I agree with what you said here. What I don’t agree with are some of the comments made below your post. I think all in all people remain confused. That “once saved, always saved” doctrine is crippling God’s people. I wish more pastors would preach repentance. That is how you are saved. Through repentance. You can accept and believe in Christ all you want to, but if you don’t repent of your sins, you are going to hell. Period. Satan and his angels believe in Christ as well, and they tremble. Someone mentions that God forgives our past, present, and future sins. Not if you don’t repent of them. Do you know what repentance is? It means to go and sin no more. Ask for forgiveness, then DON’T DO IT AGAIN!! The state in which you die, is how you spend eternity. If you repent, God doesn’t remember your sins anymore. If you sin again, God doesn’t remember the good things you did anymore. It’s simple. The person who puts his hand to the plow and then turns back is unfit to enter the kingdom of heaven. It would’ve been better that he had never known God. Sorry to get so long-winded, but I hope someone reads this and understands. It’s time of for religious doctrines and time in for real relationships with Jesus. God will not be mocked! God Bless you.
I’m a christian I have been married and I have a son. He was abusive and I left him and we are now divorced.
I have met someone else and we have slept together he believes the basics about christianity but not much else. I want to start again without sex and doing it the way God wants. He is struggling with that but is willing to try.
Because I have a son my partner really wants to live together before we get married so we can all adjust to living together expecially for my sons benefit.
I understand what he is saying it makes sense but I know it wouldnt be right in Gods eyes.
How do we move forward? and is it possible to change the mistakes you have already made?
Ray,
Allow me to introduce myself.I am a Messianic Jew and devout bible student.Before we begin let us define what SIN is biblicaly speaking.In 1 John 3:4 “Sin is Breaking YHVH’s Law”.Now does it state which “Law” ie Ceremonial,Moral,Ect?Answer,No.It says YHVH’s Laws period.So one MUST refer to the ORIGINAL LAWS ie The Old Testament.Let us remember that in 1st century Judea the “Brit Chadashah”(Renewed Covenanat)Or New Testament was not written.Let us refer to what Yeshua(Jesus real Hebrew Name) called “Scripture”.He said in Matthew 5:17-18 that the Torah(Law) and the Ketuphim(Prophets) were Scripture and untill heaven and earth cease to exhist that NOTHING shall be changed from the Law or Prophets.In the Torah(Law) we are specificly PROHIBITED from Adding too or removing any commandment from the Law of YHVH(Deut.4:2,Deut.12:32)In Daniel chapter 7 we read that the spirit of Anti Messiah will think to change the LAW of YHVH and His Times.We in Judaism are taught that if any Prophet or Teacher of Scripture attempts to add too or takes away from YHVH’s Commandments is a False Prophet and should be stoned(Deut.13 is dedicated to this issue)
I will say that this posting has lacked the base fundamental doctrine of the protestant view of SOL SCRIPTURA(Scripture only) and has been bequethed with the “Traditional View”.This is my issue with this posting.For you to call something “SIN” there must be a CLEAR prohabition in the Bible against the subject matter you are dealing with.I will say I have searched the Scripture and have for myself not found ANY Clear Prohabition against living in the same house prior to marriage but rather on the contrary.Haddasah(Esther a Matrain Saint/Book of Esther) lived in King Ahasuerus’s Palace(House) and had MANY private mettings with him over a 6 month time.In fact there is an entire Jewish Festival of Purim That is Dedicated to this Saintly Woman of Jewish History.She Lived under the same roof of her beloved before marriage while abstaining from fornication.
The problem with a “Traditional View” is that it is “Traditional” And not Commandment driven.This is the same issue Yeshua delt with with the Scribes and Pharisees in his day.They held their “Traditional Views” Higher than the Commandments of YHVH.And we see in Matthew 23 Yeshua SERIOUSLY rebuked them for such practices going as far as calling them such names as”Hypocrites”"Brood of vipers”Sons of Lucifer”And “White washed tombs filled with dead mens bones”.So Yeshua had much contempt for “Traditional Views” being taken over the Commandments of YHVH.
My question is how can you point a finger of judgment and call something “Sin” when there is NO clear Prohabition there of when in all reality do you Keep and Honor the Sabbath YHVH Declaired as the Sabbath in Creation and in Exodus 20 or how about the feast of YHVH in Lev 23 which again deals with the weekly Sabbath.When YHVH repeats himself we should Harken and Listen as obediant Children.Do you abstain from unclean foods as mentioned in Lev 11?Do you wear Tassles on the 4 corners of your garments as a reminder to keep the Commandments of YHVH your G-d as commanded in Numbers 15:38? These my Brother are Clear Commandments and not obeying is as 1 John 3:4 declairs is SIN.
I have seen you in this thread uphold a detramental “Traditional view” that has in no doubt crushed people with your approval of rejection of Marital blessing from a Pastor, Evangelist, or Rabbi due to this issue and has not built up believers but rather crushed them.I speak from Expreiance of living with my Betrothed prior to marriage while remaining abstanant untill marriage and it can be done.Let me remind you that Paul himself said I can do ALL things through Messiah that gives me strength Phil.4:13.The problem is you place such Emphasis on “Appearance” and disregard the simple fact that every matter of Judgment MUST be established on the testimony of 2-3 witnesses and with out those witnesses your “Judgment” is unrighteous and falls on the face of Hypocricy.My question is simple.”Appearance” as a socialigical term changes with in the culture.Who are you to judge what is evil and what is good when you yourself if you forsake the few examples I gave above and while yet judge others of “SIN” when you yourself live daily in it when you do not wear the garments YHVH commanded and eat the Meats YHVH declaired as abominations as well as have your pagan sunday over the biblical sabbath?I will refer you to Hebrews 10:26-28.
Your “Traditional views” flies in the face of Disrespect of YHVH.Yet you Unrighteously Judge based upon scocialogical polls rather than the individual.In the Old Testament did YHVH judge Israel on a scocialogical poll or on them individually and corpotately?The 4th of the Ten Commandments is clear individuals shall be judged not based on polls or riff raff but rather on the individual.No 2 scenarios are alike just because one does this does not mean the other will fall suit.I will leave you to these things to ponder on and welcome any who care to eat from a tree that is truly about Scripture Only and not the “Traditional View” that our Messiah Yeshua Detested.Shalom and blessings In Yeshua’s Mighty name Selah!and HalleluYAH!
Avichayil
are you not saying all of the above because you stayed with your girlfriend before marriage. please abstain from deviating the children of God. i stay with my girlfriend and we’re not married and strongly believe that is wrong and we’re going to fix that by separating. it is difficult to stay with a woman and lie to yourself that you’ll abstain,the solution is simple repent, stop immediately and prepare yourself for marriage.
Thank you for your series.I’m 37 and have been living w/my girlfreind for 8 years.At first we both shared the veiw marriage was simply a peice of paper,who needed it if you loved someone.About halfway into our relationship we started having problems…money,trust,anger types of things.I proposed but was turned down,but we stayed together.last year we returned to church(I grew up catholic her baptist).Our marital situation bothered me so I proposed again(guess I was looking for an easy way out),it wasn’t gonna happen.I turned to a deciple and so did she.We were told our relationship was built on bad foundation and destined to fail.We both are studying Gods word and bettering ourselves,we are recieving couple’s counsling,and gaining advice through our churches body.
We were both told we needed to seperate.She lost her job three yrs ago,Im the sole breadwinner,all or bills are paid but there is little left at the end of the week(we have no debt except the house),we have two kids 8 and 5.
last week my asst. paster found me a place to stay,for free,with one of the churches members.I’m allitle nervous for I’m esencialy homeless and paying all the bills and fixing a house ect. w/o the benifits of the fruits of my labor.But I’m confident things will work out because its Gods will.I’m sure the kids will ask questions,but were prepared for that too.
I guess I’m writting this to show it can be done.It sucks out loud but gaining Gods approval is never easy and sometimes requiers great sacrifice.
If anyone is interested I’ll update this post from time to time to show how its going.Thank you to all those who have prayed for my family.
Hi,
I have been living with my boyfriend for 12 years. We both have 2 children, a nine year and 3 year old. He is the bread winner of the family. He was married before, he told me he signed his divorce papers but I have not seen any proof of it. I feel so lost. We are Christians attending Baptist church.I grew up as a catholic and 2 years ago I was introduced to the teaching of Gods word, and accepted Jesus as savior. Please give me some advice.
Hey,
I have grown up in the church and have known Jesus my whole life. Throughout my journey, I’ve been through times when I’ve been hot and on fire for God, and at other times when I’ve been backsliden and apathetic, living life on my own terms and ignoring God. It was while I was like this I met my fiance, after some time we moved into a room together in a share house. Our plan was to move out into our own place and start a life together. To cut the long story short, through prayer and extraordingary circumstances, she became a Christian and I renewed my commitment to Jesus. I felt a new and exciting opportunity to do the right thing before God. We became engaged and decided to change our plans and not move in together until we are married. I know this is the right decision. I chose a place where I could live and my brother is moving in too. Now she has changed her mind and wishes that we’d decided to just move in together. This is because she is currently living with her parents and is tired of it. Plus she’d been building her dreams on the notion that we’d be living together and building a home this year. I understand what she’s saying and how she feels, but I can see that it is coming from a place of misunderstanding. Its devastating. To add to it, she has been complaining about the place I chose to live in and has been expressing regret and lamenting quite regularly our decision to not move in. I don’t know how to help her to understand that we’ve made the right decision, other than to pray for her. I suppose this is a perfect example of reaping what we’ve been sowing from committing fornication and making a mockery of marriage in the past.
Thank you Ray for shedding some light on this issue. I have been struggling with this for the past few months-even more so in the past few days.
My girlfriend and I are trying to grow our relationship into a Christ-centered one, but unfortunately I did not understand enough about living out God’s will. The two of us moved out of state together and decided it was okay to move in together. At first we lived together in sexual sin, but as our relationship has grown we have chosen abstinence. I pray our misunderstandings and wrong choices will not hurt us in the long run.
my fiance is pregnant we do live together her mother wants her to move 3 hours away from me knowing that i wont be able to come and be by her side during the pregnancy i have recently given my life to god i know us living together is not what god would want from us but her parents says that i have to sacrifice and allow her to move away from me before marriage but only under their terms not god’s im feeling really torn i want to be able to be there for my future wife and our baby i know living together is not right but i also feel that if she moves it’s going to destroy our relationship we have made the commitment not to have sex until our wedding in march as hard as that is i know that’s what god has asked of me…. i have a bad past but i feel like god has lifted me of all that i have done in my past which is why her parents do not like me and they as “christians” say that im not the one for her but i know deep down that she is the one for me and she feels that way how can you be a christian and talk bad about someone else especially someone who is trying to do the right thing. just not the right thing for them ( the parents)
Cory,
you say you’re obeying God by abstaining from sex,so why not obey by seperating?God does not put signifficance on his Word.
im ok with seperating but also realize she is having my child and as a father i have obligations to be there how can i do that with her 3 hours away not like i can go and get her if she needs me in the middle of the night. its not as easy as it sounds and i know trust me i know that before we get married we need to do the right thing but i dont feel her moving 3 hours is the right thing i might can stay with my parents while she lives in our apartment
and a side note.. her parents claim to be christian’s but yet they tell her im no good and that im going to be a horrible father they say god wants her there with them so tell me what you would do if that were happening too you?