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	<title>Ray Fowler .org &#187; Mormonism</title>
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	<link>http://www.rayfowler.org</link>
	<description>Thoughts on God and life from a Christian perspective</description>
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		<title>Around the Web &#8211; 5/14/2009</title>
		<link>http://www.rayfowler.org/2009/05/14/around-the-web-5-14-2009/</link>
		<comments>http://www.rayfowler.org/2009/05/14/around-the-web-5-14-2009/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 04:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ray Fowler</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Around the Web]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormonism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Narnia]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rayfowler.org/?p=3998</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Planet Narnia Spin. Devin Brown challenges the central thesis of Michael Ward&#8217;s book, Planet Narnia. Praying in a Mosque. Protestant pastor Edward H. Schreur shares what he learned from praying in a mosque. Free Class on Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses. Rob Bowman’s class on understanding Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses is available on iTunes for free.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<ul>
<li><a href="http://booksbycslewis.blogspot.com/2009/05/planet-narnia-spin-spun.html" title="C. S. Lewis Blog: Planet Narnia Spin, Spun Out">Planet Narnia Spin.</a>  Devin Brown challenges the central thesis of Michael Ward&#8217;s book, <em>Planet Narnia</em>.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.thinkchristian.net/index.php/2009/05/13/mosque-prayer-questions/" title="Mosque Prayer Questions | Think Christian">Praying in a Mosque.</a>  Protestant pastor Edward H. Schreur shares what he learned from praying in a mosque.</li>
<li><a href="http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/05/mormon-jehovahs-witnesses-now-on-itunes/" title="Parchment and Pen » Understanding Mormons &#038; Jehovah's Witnesses Now on iTunes!">Free Class on Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses.</a>  Rob Bowman’s class on understanding Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses is available on iTunes for free.</li>
</ul>
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		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Discussion on Christianity and Mormonism</title>
		<link>http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/01/21/discussion-on-christianity-and-mormonism/</link>
		<comments>http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/01/21/discussion-on-christianity-and-mormonism/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ray Fowler</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Mormonism]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/01/21/discussion-on-christianity-and-mormonism/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is some fresh discussion on an earlier post about Christianity and Mormonism. Feel free to click on the post and join the discussion! Should Christians Call Mormonism a Cult? Related post: Beliefnet Debate: Are Mormons Christian?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is some fresh discussion on an earlier post about Christianity and Mormonism.  Feel free to click on the post and join the discussion!</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/05/24/should-christians-call-mormonism-a-cult/" title="Should Christians Call Mormonism a Cult? at Ray Fowler .org">Should Christians Call Mormonism a Cult?</a></li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Related post:</strong>  </p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/07/10/beliefnet-debate-are-mormons-christian/" title="Beliefnet Debate: Are Mormons Christian? at Ray Fowler .org">Beliefnet Debate: Are Mormons Christian?</a></li>
</ul>
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		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Beliefnet Debate: Are Mormons Christian?</title>
		<link>http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/07/10/beliefnet-debate-are-mormons-christian/</link>
		<comments>http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/07/10/beliefnet-debate-are-mormons-christian/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 14:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ray Fowler</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Mormonism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Theology]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/07/10/beliefnet-debate-are-mormons-christian/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Are Mormons Christian? Beliefnet is currently hosting a debate on this question between Albert Mohler (president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary) and Mormon novelist Orson Scott Card. Here is an excerpt from Mohler&#8217;s most recent exchange with Card. “Are Mormons ‘Christians’ as defined by traditional Christian orthodoxy?” . . . With the question structured [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are Mormons Christian?  Beliefnet is currently hosting a debate on this question between  Albert Mohler (president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary) and Mormon novelist Orson Scott Card.  Here is an <a href="http://blog.beliefnet.com/blogalogue/2007/07/the-church-of-the-devil.html" title="Beliefnet: Blogalogue - Debates About Faith">excerpt from Mohler&#8217;s most recent exchange with Card</a>.</p>
<blockquote><p>“Are Mormons ‘Christians’ as defined by traditional Christian orthodoxy?” . . . With the question structured that way, the answer is clear and unassailable – Mormonism is not Christianity. </p>
<p>When the question is framed this way, Mr. Card and I actually agree, as his essay makes clear.  In his words, “I am also happy to agree with him [Mohler] that when one compares our understanding of the nature of God and Christ, we categorically disagree with almost every statement in the ‘historic creeds and doctrinal affirmations’ he refers to.”</p>
<p>Mr. Card would prefer that the question be put differently . . . If I were a Mormon I would share that concern and would try to define Christianity in some way other than traditional Christian orthodoxy. The reason is simple – traditional Christian orthodoxy and Mormon theology are utterly incompatible . . .</p>
<p>Mormonism uses the language of Christian theology and makes many references to Christ . . . But Christianity has never been defined in terms of merely thinking well of Jesus. Mormonism claims to affirm the New Testament teachings about Jesus, but actually presents a very different Jesus from the onset. A reading of Mormonism’s authoritative documents makes this clear . . .</p>
<p>“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints,” as Mormonism is officially known, claims to be the only true church. As stated in the Doctrine and Covenants [1:30], Mormonism is “the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth.” According to Mormon teaching, the church was corrupted after the death of the apostles and became the “Church of the Devil.” Mormonism then claims that the true church was restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith in the 1820s. This restored church was, Mormon theology claims, given the keys to the kingdom and the authority of the only true priesthood . . . </p>
<p>Mr. Card may complain that traditional Christianity defines the faith in a way that rejects Mormonism. Fair enough. But Mormonism rejects historic Christianity as it makes its own central claim – to be the only true church, restored on earth in the latter days. </p></blockquote>
<p>You can <a href="http://blog.beliefnet.com/blogalogue/mormondebate/" title="Beliefnet: Blogalogue - Debates About Faith">read the full debate here</a>.</p>
<p>Related post:  <a href="http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/05/24/should-christians-call-mormonism-a-cult/" title="Should Christians Call Mormonism a Cult? at Ray Fowler .org">Should Christians Call Mormonism a Cult?</a></p>
<div><a class="addthis_button" href="//addthis.com/bookmark.php?v=250" addthis:url='http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/07/10/beliefnet-debate-are-mormons-christian/' addthis:title='Beliefnet Debate: Are Mormons Christian? '><img src="//cache.addthis.com/cachefly/static/btn/v2/lg-share-en.gif" width="125" height="16" alt="Bookmark and Share" style="border:0"/></a></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<slash:comments>7</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Should Christians Call Mormonism a Cult?</title>
		<link>http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/05/24/should-christians-call-mormonism-a-cult/</link>
		<comments>http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/05/24/should-christians-call-mormonism-a-cult/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 06:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ray Fowler</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Current Events]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormonism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Politics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Theology]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/05/24/should-christians-call-mormonism-a-cult/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Should Christians call Mormonism a cult? Is the word &#8220;cult&#8221; a useful term in public speech today? These are some of the questions John Mark Reynolds addresses in his article: On &#8220;Cult:&#8221; Is the Word Useful in Political Speech? The question is especially important to consider with a Mormon, Governor Mitt Romney, currently running for [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Should Christians call Mormonism a cult?  Is the word &#8220;cult&#8221; a useful term in public speech today?  These are some of the questions John Mark Reynolds addresses in his article: <a href="http://www.scriptoriumdaily.com/2007/05/11/on-cult-is-the-word-useful-in-political-speech/" title="On 'Cult:' Is the Word Useful in Political Speech? | Scriptorium Daily">On &#8220;Cult:&#8221; Is the Word Useful in Political Speech?</a>  The question is especially important to consider with a Mormon, Governor Mitt Romney, currently running for President.</p>
<p>Reynolds points out that the word &#8220;cult&#8221; has at least three different meanings associated with it.  It can mean either:</p>
<ol>
<li>the religious practices of a particular group,</li>
<li>a group that claims to be Christian but denies orthodox doctrine, or</li>
<li>a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister (Oxford American)</li>
</ol>
<p>The first definition makes no value judgments and could refer to any religion (including the Christian faith).  The second definition makes a value judgment as regards the truth claims of a particular group, i.e. whether or not the group aligns with historic Christian teaching.  The third definition makes a value judgment as regards the social acceptability of the group.</p>
<p>When Christians speak of Mormonism, Christian Science, Jehovah&#8217;s Witnesses, etc. as cults, we usually mean the word in the sense of the second definition above.  We simply mean that these are groups which claim to be Christian but do not hold to key points of historic Christian doctrine &#8211; teachings such as the trinity, the deity of Christ, salvation by faith in Christ alone, or the Bible as our sole authority for faith and practice.  These are areas in which Mormons deviate from Christian belief, and so, in this sense of the word, we could properly term Mormonism as a cult.</p>
<p><span id="more-251"></span></p>
<p>However, Reynolds argues that when most Americans hear the word, &#8220;cult,&#8221; they think of the third definition rather than the second.  The second definition is more of a technical term with an in-house meaning for Christians.  And so when we use the word &#8220;cult&#8221; in public or political speech, we miscommunicate. We mean the second definition, but our hearers think we mean the third.</p>
<p>Reynold offers the following cautions for our public discourse:</p>
<blockquote><p>This [third] use of the term “cult” when applied to Mormonism or any other religious group is nothing more than an insult in the popular or political context. Religious insults are particularly ill suited for political discourse in a religiously diverse culture. Even if a traditional Christian explains what they mean, this takes time and still leaves them open to misunderstanding &#8230;</p>
<p>Traditional Christians should avoid using the word “cult” in public speech, especially as a description of large, older, stable religious groups such as Mormonism.</p></blockquote>
<p>I believe Reynolds is absolutely right here.  When I have taught on cults in the past, I have tried to be careful to present two definitions for the word cult: a secular definition and a religious definition.  Here are the definitions I have used:</p>
<ul>
<li>Secular definition:  “A group or movement that controls its members through deception, manipulation and isolation from others outside the group.”</li>
<li>Religious definition: “A religious group that distorts the basic teachings of the Bible and rejects the historic teaching of the Christian church.”</li>
</ul>
<p>I then try to make it clear that in talking about religious groups that deviate from Christianity  we are mainly using the religious definition (although with certain groups the secular definition may also apply).</p>
<p>What are your thoughts on all this?  Are you used to referring to Mormonism or other such groups as cults?  Do you think it would be wise to limit this terminology to use within the church and to avoid using it in public discourse?  Or should Christians abandon the word altogether and find some other term to refer to religious groups that deviate from historic Christianity?</p>
<p><strong>Related post on Mormonism and Christianity:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/07/10/beliefnet-debate-are-mormons-christian/" title="Beliefnet Debate: Are Mormons Christian? at Ray Fowler .org">Beliefnet Debate: Are Mormons Christian?</a></li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Related posts on politics:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/12/27/still-leaning-towards-fred/" title="Still Leaning Towards Fred at Ray Fowler .org">Still Leaning Towards Fred</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/11/15/mike-huckabees-sunday-sermon-at-prestonwood/" title="Mike Huckabee's Sunday Sermon at Prestonwood at Ray Fowler .org">Mike Huckabee&#8217;s Sunday Sermon at Prestonwood</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/10/24/the-cluster-approach-to-the-gop-nomination/" title="The Cluster Approach to the GOP Nomination at Ray Fowler .org">The Cluster Approach to the GOP Nomination</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/10/19/the-mpr-select-a-candidate-quiz/" title="The MPR Select a Candidate Quiz at Ray Fowler .org">The MPR Select a Candidate Quiz</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/10/11/memo-to-evangelical-leaders-on-romney/" title="Memo to Evangelical Leaders on Romney at Ray Fowler .org">Memo to Evangelical Leaders on Romney</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/09/13/rasmussen-reports-daily-presidential-tracking-poll/" title="Rasmussen Reports Daily Presidential Tracking Poll at Ray Fowler .org">Rasmussen Reports Daily Presidential Tracking Poll</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/07/26/ravi-zacharias-on-electing-the-next-president/" title="Ravi Zacharias on Electing the Next President at Ray Fowler .org">Ravi Zacharias on Electing the Next President</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/04/02/news-and-notes-4-2-2007/" title="News and Notes - 4/2/2007 at Ray Fowler .org">Rudy, John, Mitt . . . and Fred?</a></li>
</ul>
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