Comments on: Living Together Without Sex http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/ Thoughts on God and life from a Christian perspective Mon, 06 Feb 2012 21:51:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: C Moore http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/#comment-22650 C Moore Fri, 23 Dec 2011 18:30:17 +0000 http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/#comment-22650 I have a concern about a friend at church who is almost 80 years old. She was a widow at a young age then moved a man in with her for 10 years and not married. That relationship ended and now she has taken up with another man who stays several days at her house and visa versa. They both claim to be staunch and firm in their religion beliefs. I cannot condone this and what it appears to be. Even though I cannot judge its the appearance that makes me saddened by what she is showing her family and friends. What can I say to her that keeps her from continuing this type of lifestyle. I have a concern about a friend at church who is almost 80 years old. She was a widow at a young age then moved a man in with her for 10 years and not married. That relationship ended and now she has taken up with another man who stays several days at her house and visa versa. They both claim to be staunch and firm in their religion beliefs. I cannot condone this and what it appears to be. Even though I cannot judge its the appearance that makes me saddened by what she is showing her family and friends. What can I say to her that keeps her from continuing this type of lifestyle.

]]> By: Kassie http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/#comment-22609 Kassie Sun, 30 Oct 2011 08:17:47 +0000 http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/#comment-22609 Ray, I fully understand why I should not be living with my boyfriend. We have separate rooms and are abstinent, but I want to be a good witness to my two teens and his daughter as well as others God has placed in our life. I agreed to this situation because he promised me that it would be temporary and that we would be married soon. That was five months ago. We are locked in a year lease. Two months ago I was laid off from my job and now he is supporting me. We argue alot about the marriage subject. I want him to make good on his promise and he says that my angry outbursts on the subject have pushed him away. We decided to forgive each other and he is now praying seeking guidance on our situation. I talked to my pastors wife and she suggested an October wedding. He has been married before and so have I and he tells me he is very cautious and does not wish to go through divorce again. I agree as I am also divorced. He is praying asking God to show him what to do, but I don't know what to do in the meantime. I have nowhere to go and I don't have a job to support myself. I have gotten interviews but nothing yet. I feel that as a godly christian man he should make good on his promise to me. He tells me that him providing for me should show his intentions. I say it is a cop out. I appreciate everything he does for me, but it still isn't right. Obviously I have no peace and I know we should not be living together. The bible also talks about providing a way of escape. I just need something to happen soon, either a cheap wedding ceremony or a job & place to live. I have been on my own for 5 years before this and prayed to God for a husband, not a live in boyfriend. I feel cheated. I do all of the work of a wife (cleaning, laundry, errands, pay bills, attend to the needs of the family), but I have no benefits. I'm sorry if I have been ranting. I am just frustrated beyond belief and when I pray God just tells me to be still. Please help. Ray,

I fully understand why I should not be living with my boyfriend. We have separate rooms and are abstinent, but I want to be a good witness to my two teens and his daughter as well as others God has placed in our life. I agreed to this situation because he promised me that it would be temporary and that we would be married soon. That was five months ago. We are locked in a year lease. Two months ago I was laid off from my job and now he is supporting me. We argue alot about the marriage subject. I want him to make good on his promise and he says that my angry outbursts on the subject have pushed him away. We decided to forgive each other and he is now praying seeking guidance on our situation. I talked to my pastors wife and she suggested an October wedding. He has been married before and so have I and he tells me he is very cautious and does not wish to go through divorce again. I agree as I am also divorced. He is praying asking God to show him what to do, but I don’t know what to do in the meantime. I have nowhere to go and I don’t have a job to support myself. I have gotten interviews but nothing yet. I feel that as a godly christian man he should make good on his promise to me. He tells me that him providing for me should show his intentions. I say it is a cop out. I appreciate everything he does for me, but it still isn’t right. Obviously I have no peace and I know we should not be living together. The bible also talks about providing a way of escape. I just need something to happen soon, either a cheap wedding ceremony or a job & place to live. I have been on my own for 5 years before this and prayed to God for a husband, not a live in boyfriend. I feel cheated. I do all of the work of a wife (cleaning, laundry, errands, pay bills, attend to the needs of the family), but I have no benefits. I’m sorry if I have been ranting. I am just frustrated beyond belief and when I pray God just tells me to be still. Please help.

]]> By: Leah http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/#comment-22553 Leah Sun, 09 Oct 2011 22:47:16 +0000 http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/#comment-22553 If you go to itunes you can download for free a sermon by Tommy Nelson with Denton Bible Church called the Art of Intimacy. It's based on the Song of Solomon which is probably the best place to start when looking at intimacy of any kind from God's perspective. I believe the only way that "having sexual thoughts towards" or "looking lustfully at" your wife could be sinful is if it's in the context of looking at her as an idol (i.e. worshiping the created, your wife, instead of the Creator, God). Your wife should be seen as an example of God's artistry and His love towards you, and your attraction to her should not stop at her but roll forward into worship for the one who Created her. That's my take on it anyways. I HIGHLY recommend checking out the sermon, it's one of a series of six on Song of Solomon and they're all fantastic. If you go to itunes you can download for free a sermon by Tommy Nelson with Denton Bible Church called the Art of Intimacy. It’s based on the Song of Solomon which is probably the best place to start when looking at intimacy of any kind from God’s perspective. I believe the only way that “having sexual thoughts towards” or “looking lustfully at” your wife could be sinful is if it’s in the context of looking at her as an idol (i.e. worshiping the created, your wife, instead of the Creator, God). Your wife should be seen as an example of God’s artistry and His love towards you, and your attraction to her should not stop at her but roll forward into worship for the one who Created her. That’s my take on it anyways. I HIGHLY recommend checking out the sermon, it’s one of a series of six on Song of Solomon and they’re all fantastic.

]]> By: duff http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/#comment-22552 duff Sun, 09 Oct 2011 22:37:51 +0000 http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/#comment-22552 my situation is out of this context. 1. If I look at my wife lustfully, is it a sin, remember what the bible on this. 2. If I have sexual thoughts towards my wife, is God happy with me? Please I need help on these questions, scriptures needed too please. Thnks. my situation is out of this context. 1. If I look at my wife lustfully, is it a sin, remember what the bible on this. 2. If I have sexual thoughts towards my wife, is God happy with me? Please I need help on these questions, scriptures needed too please. Thnks.

]]> By: Liz http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/#comment-22544 Liz Thu, 06 Oct 2011 01:50:50 +0000 http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/#comment-22544 Oh... and by the way, while God didn't stop me from getting cancer, it does appear that he helped cure (?) me of it... after lots of prayer and some crazy diets/treatments. I remember reading on this thread earlier someone talking about what other people think about you from the outside looking in and that they will assume you are not abstaining. That was one of the things that really stuck with me. I have worked really hard at abstinence... I'm in my 30s!!!! I don't want people thinking I'm having sex after I have waited this long! Now this apartment situation gives me even more opportunities to talk about Christianity in general with people. I can't even estimate how many people in my life (including members of my own family) have said "why are you living separate?" At first I wasn't sure what to say. Now I simply answer, "we are Christian" and most people don't ask for elaboration. I think that's some good public relations for Christianity. :P Oh… and by the way, while God didn’t stop me from getting cancer, it does appear that he helped cure (?) me of it… after lots of prayer and some crazy diets/treatments.

I remember reading on this thread earlier someone talking about what other people think about you from the outside looking in and that they will assume you are not abstaining. That was one of the things that really stuck with me. I have worked really hard at abstinence… I’m in my 30s!!!! I don’t want people thinking I’m having sex after I have waited this long! Now this apartment situation gives me even more opportunities to talk about Christianity in general with people. I can’t even estimate how many people in my life (including members of my own family) have said “why are you living separate?” At first I wasn’t sure what to say. Now I simply answer, “we are Christian” and most people don’t ask for elaboration. I think that’s some good public relations for Christianity. :P

]]> By: Leah http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/#comment-22543 Leah Thu, 06 Oct 2011 01:46:15 +0000 http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/#comment-22543 Final comment, there is also no shame in going to a justice of the peace and having a very small/inexpensive ceremony with family and friends. I'm married into the military and you'd be floored by how many people did that because of the way the military works and then you can always have a big blowout wedding or even an awesome destination recommitment/wedding ceremony once you're done with school and can finally afford it :) That's another option my now husband and I considered :) Final comment, there is also no shame in going to a justice of the peace and having a very small/inexpensive ceremony with family and friends. I’m married into the military and you’d be floored by how many people did that because of the way the military works and then you can always have a big blowout wedding or even an awesome destination recommitment/wedding ceremony once you’re done with school and can finally afford it :) That’s another option my now husband and I considered :)

]]> By: Leah http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/#comment-22542 Leah Thu, 06 Oct 2011 01:38:56 +0000 http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/#comment-22542 I've got to agree with Liz on this one, and I can also speak from the experience of having been there and done that. When I was kicked out of my mom's house by my stepdad in favor of my brother living there, I figured I might as well move closer to my then boyfriend (now husband). Like many people on here we were already quite certain we would be getting married and had no real problems with our commitment to abstinence. Like many on here I scoured the Bible for passages that referenced sharing a house but having separate rooms and I initially wondered what was the point in expending a lot of time, energy, and money to find a separate place for the few months before we got married. While that specific verbage isn't in the Bible, there are many passages about avoiding immorality or (and here's the kicker) even the APPEARANCE of immorality. While it would be great if we lived in a society where two people living together didn't throw up red flags, we don't. It's amazing how much damage even little things can do to the efficacy of your testimony, and living together is no little thing. In my case we went to one of the couples who had come to us with their concerns about us sharing a home and told them to put their money where their mouth is. If you think sleeping on a futon for six months in a home with a couple of newlyweds while you're dying to be with your own other half was the easy option, think again. That said, are you part of a church family around school? Have you gone to any of the local churches and shared with them your situation? I've never been to a church that didn't have elderly empty nesters who would be more than happy to assist a couple trying to do the right thing. Following God is often not the easy choice, but it is the better choice, and He will always provide a way if we seek it. If you're willing to share your general location with the board (for safety's sake don't get too specific) you may even find a sympathetic ear on here willing to lend a hand. Don't give up, keep looking and keep praying. God is faithful to provide every time he calls us into something difficult. I’ve got to agree with Liz on this one, and I can also speak from the experience of having been there and done that. When I was kicked out of my mom’s house by my stepdad in favor of my brother living there, I figured I might as well move closer to my then boyfriend (now husband). Like many people on here we were already quite certain we would be getting married and had no real problems with our commitment to abstinence. Like many on here I scoured the Bible for passages that referenced sharing a house but having separate rooms and I initially wondered what was the point in expending a lot of time, energy, and money to find a separate place for the few months before we got married. While that specific verbage isn’t in the Bible, there are many passages about avoiding immorality or (and here’s the kicker) even the APPEARANCE of immorality. While it would be great if we lived in a society where two people living together didn’t throw up red flags, we don’t. It’s amazing how much damage even little things can do to the efficacy of your testimony, and living together is no little thing. In my case we went to one of the couples who had come to us with their concerns about us sharing a home and told them to put their money where their mouth is. If you think sleeping on a futon for six months in a home with a couple of newlyweds while you’re dying to be with your own other half was the easy option, think again. That said, are you part of a church family around school? Have you gone to any of the local churches and shared with them your situation? I’ve never been to a church that didn’t have elderly empty nesters who would be more than happy to assist a couple trying to do the right thing. Following God is often not the easy choice, but it is the better choice, and He will always provide a way if we seek it. If you’re willing to share your general location with the board (for safety’s sake don’t get too specific) you may even find a sympathetic ear on here willing to lend a hand. Don’t give up, keep looking and keep praying. God is faithful to provide every time he calls us into something difficult.

]]> By: Liz http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/#comment-22541 Liz Thu, 06 Oct 2011 01:24:42 +0000 http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/#comment-22541 Ooops sorry for a second post but I forgot to comment about the poverty thing. My boyfriend and I both were living in poverty before we met each other, while we dated for 2 years, and will still be living in poverty. I don't feel forsaken by God at all. I'm not sure what others may think, but I don't think that verse means that God saves us from hard times. I also have cancer and, again, I have not felt forsaken. God didn't save me from that either. I just have a different perspective because no matter which way I turn, I'll be living in poverty. So for me, I'd rather be living in poverty and not in sin than living in sin and in poverty. Seems like a better deal. PLEASE do not take me for one of those people who are judgmental though. I really am not. I just wanted to sort of "witness" in a way by saying look at what Christ did for me and my relationship, he found a different answer for me that I never even considered or imagined. Around here, you do not want to live in apartments this low of a price unless your other options are homelessness and then you might even choose to live in your car. You are getting into a danger zone going as low as $400 for a 1 bedroom. We really lucked out. The landlord even admitted to us that he normally doesn't rent them this low. It was all a "fluke" that we got the rent this low and that there were 2 apartments opening near each other. I just wanted to share that for my experience, it was like the gates of heaven opened and helped us out. It's completely the power of prayer - bringing your concerns to God and asking for his will to be done. Ooops sorry for a second post but I forgot to comment about the poverty thing. My boyfriend and I both were living in poverty before we met each other, while we dated for 2 years, and will still be living in poverty. I don’t feel forsaken by God at all. I’m not sure what others may think, but I don’t think that verse means that God saves us from hard times. I also have cancer and, again, I have not felt forsaken. God didn’t save me from that either. I just have a different perspective because no matter which way I turn, I’ll be living in poverty. So for me, I’d rather be living in poverty and not in sin than living in sin and in poverty. Seems like a better deal. PLEASE do not take me for one of those people who are judgmental though. I really am not. I just wanted to sort of “witness” in a way by saying look at what Christ did for me and my relationship, he found a different answer for me that I never even considered or imagined. Around here, you do not want to live in apartments this low of a price unless your other options are homelessness and then you might even choose to live in your car. You are getting into a danger zone going as low as $400 for a 1 bedroom. We really lucked out. The landlord even admitted to us that he normally doesn’t rent them this low. It was all a “fluke” that we got the rent this low and that there were 2 apartments opening near each other. I just wanted to share that for my experience, it was like the gates of heaven opened and helped us out. It’s completely the power of prayer – bringing your concerns to God and asking for his will to be done.

]]> By: Liz http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/#comment-22540 Liz Thu, 06 Oct 2011 01:17:19 +0000 http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/#comment-22540 I worked for 10 years in college/higher education administration most of which was in housing. Have you tried talking with someone in your Residence Life office? They will want to retain you as a resident and can help you brainstorm options for your campus. I know in my job, I regularly hooked up students with financial challenges with a scholarship just to keep them in our housing. We did not want them to leave campus. That is part of the training at the schools but also in the Master's degree program. I took an entire class on retention. Also, my income is $700 a month. My rent is $400. Believe me, I understand. My financial situation right now is way worse than it was as a college student... and I was a college student for 6 years (Bachelor's and Master's). On top of my medical expenses I have student loans I have to keep putting into deferment and forbearance (many of which are accruing interest at an alarming rate). So, yes, $400/month SEEMS like a lot but it's a choice we made based on where we felt God was leading us. I just wanted to be sure that you had prayed about it. When I was originally reading these posts trying to figure things out, I had not prayed. Someone finally said "hey why don't you pray" and it changed everything. This blog and it's comments are really just a place for us to connect with each other as Christians to kind of sort things out, but it's really God that we need to turn to in order to get things in order. I just hope I'm saving you some time. I wish someone had reminded me to pray earlier. Then again, maybe it wasn't God's will for it to happen that way. Had it all happened that quickly for me, maybe I wouldn't feel inclined to share my story. Sometimes God wants us to live out things in a certain way so we will share the story. I'm sorry if you weren't impressed with God's work in my life as much as I was! :) Don't be discouraged though, things will work out. I worked for 10 years in college/higher education administration most of which was in housing. Have you tried talking with someone in your Residence Life office? They will want to retain you as a resident and can help you brainstorm options for your campus. I know in my job, I regularly hooked up students with financial challenges with a scholarship just to keep them in our housing. We did not want them to leave campus. That is part of the training at the schools but also in the Master’s degree program. I took an entire class on retention.

Also, my income is $700 a month. My rent is $400. Believe me, I understand. My financial situation right now is way worse than it was as a college student… and I was a college student for 6 years (Bachelor’s and Master’s). On top of my medical expenses I have student loans I have to keep putting into deferment and forbearance (many of which are accruing interest at an alarming rate). So, yes, $400/month SEEMS like a lot but it’s a choice we made based on where we felt God was leading us.

I just wanted to be sure that you had prayed about it. When I was originally reading these posts trying to figure things out, I had not prayed. Someone finally said “hey why don’t you pray” and it changed everything.

This blog and it’s comments are really just a place for us to connect with each other as Christians to kind of sort things out, but it’s really God that we need to turn to in order to get things in order.

I just hope I’m saving you some time. I wish someone had reminded me to pray earlier. Then again, maybe it wasn’t God’s will for it to happen that way. Had it all happened that quickly for me, maybe I wouldn’t feel inclined to share my story. Sometimes God wants us to live out things in a certain way so we will share the story. I’m sorry if you weren’t impressed with God’s work in my life as much as I was! :) Don’t be discouraged though, things will work out.

]]> By: Adam http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/#comment-22539 Adam Thu, 06 Oct 2011 01:03:46 +0000 http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/06/19/living-together-without-sex/#comment-22539 I'm really glad everything was able to work out for you Liz however in my situation being a college student even the $400 a month is very expensive. I would gladly live in a seperate apartment however if someone is willing to give me the difference of splitting rent and me paying all of it myself. Until that happens the lowest cost solution is to live together. As Briley also stated it becomes very frustrating when I'm told something is bad yet I'm offered no alternative. The fact is my girlfriend and I have to move out of our dorms because we can not afford it and since splitting an apartment is our only option for living why isn't it ok. Would God rather us living on the street or living in poverty in two seperate apartments. No He wouldn't because He loves us and will not forsake us. In my eyes he gave us this opportunity at a very low cost two bedroom apartment because He wanted us to take it to strenghthen our bonds with Him and each other. It's not like we're even sharing a bed and we both have taken a vow with God to remain abstinent. I’m really glad everything was able to work out for you Liz however in my situation being a college student even the $400 a month is very expensive. I would gladly live in a seperate apartment however if someone is willing to give me the difference of splitting rent and me paying all of it myself. Until that happens the lowest cost solution is to live together. As Briley also stated it becomes very frustrating when I’m told something is bad yet I’m offered no alternative. The fact is my girlfriend and I have to move out of our dorms because we can not afford it and since splitting an apartment is our only option for living why isn’t it ok. Would God rather us living on the street or living in poverty in two seperate apartments. No He wouldn’t because He loves us and will not forsake us. In my eyes he gave us this opportunity at a very low cost two bedroom apartment because He wanted us to take it to strenghthen our bonds with Him and each other. It’s not like we’re even sharing a bed and we both have taken a vow with God to remain abstinent.

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