Comments on: Scriptures on Living Together Before Marriage http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/ Thoughts on God and life from a Christian perspective Mon, 06 Feb 2012 21:51:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Alvina http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/#comment-22659 Alvina Thu, 29 Dec 2011 06:45:21 +0000 http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/#comment-22659 I have been staying with my boyfriend for six years and he does not mention anything about getting married.I want to move out back home but its diificult for me.I do meet other guys who wants to marry me but im allready use to my guy.Pls help im stressed. I have been staying with my boyfriend for six years and he does not mention anything about getting married.I want to move out back home but its diificult for me.I do meet other guys who wants to marry me but im allready use to my guy.Pls help im stressed.

]]> By: Van Edwards http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/#comment-22652 Van Edwards Fri, 23 Dec 2011 18:58:32 +0000 http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/#comment-22652 I keep reading the argument that scripture doesn't mention living together, therefore, it must not be wrong. There are many issues not specifically spelled out in scripture that we would all agree are wrong and sinful. If the Bible was a catalog of commands and sins, here's what we'd have: - a gigantic book we could not carry around. You think the US tax code is bad? - the loss of discernment. God wants us to love Him with our minds. When we immerse ourselves in scripture, we gain a biblical worldview that helps us think through all situations. - the diminishing of the Law of Love. "For God so loved the world..." Jesus didn't die so we could live by a set of rules. "We love, because He first loved us." We glorify God when we consider how we can love Him and others better by our actions in the situations we're in. Love is often sacrificial and rarely convenient. - a tarnishing of the Gospel. When we place our faith in Christ, God justifies us - we are covered by the righteousness of Christ because we can never produce the perfect righteousness God requires. If the Bible was a rule book, we would be no better than self-righteous Pharisees with a new set of laws. - and like the Pharisees, we'd still be looking for loopholes. The point is, are we looking for loopholes to live the way we want or do we truly desire to love and please God because of what he's done for us? The Christian life isn't about doing "just enough" to fulfill our obligations. Contrary to popular opinion, God didn't send his Son so I could have a happy, comfortable life (or "Your Best Life Now"). He sent Him to bring Himself more glory, and believers participate in that goal when we strive to be more like Jesus instead of pursuing our own desires. I keep reading the argument that scripture doesn’t mention living together, therefore, it must not be wrong. There are many issues not specifically spelled out in scripture that we would all agree are wrong and sinful. If the Bible was a catalog of commands and sins, here’s what we’d have:

- a gigantic book we could not carry around. You think the US tax code is bad?
- the loss of discernment. God wants us to love Him with our minds. When we immerse ourselves in scripture, we gain a biblical worldview that helps us think through all situations.
- the diminishing of the Law of Love. “For God so loved the world…” Jesus didn’t die so we could live by a set of rules. “We love, because He first loved us.” We glorify God when we consider how we can love Him and others better by our actions in the situations we’re in. Love is often sacrificial and rarely convenient.
- a tarnishing of the Gospel. When we place our faith in Christ, God justifies us – we are covered by the righteousness of Christ because we can never produce the perfect righteousness God requires. If the Bible was a rule book, we would be no better than self-righteous Pharisees with a new set of laws.
- and like the Pharisees, we’d still be looking for loopholes.

The point is, are we looking for loopholes to live the way we want or do we truly desire to love and please God because of what he’s done for us? The Christian life isn’t about doing “just enough” to fulfill our obligations. Contrary to popular opinion, God didn’t send his Son so I could have a happy, comfortable life (or “Your Best Life Now”). He sent Him to bring Himself more glory, and believers participate in that goal when we strive to be more like Jesus instead of pursuing our own desires.

]]> By: Van Edwards http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/#comment-22651 Van Edwards Fri, 23 Dec 2011 18:51:54 +0000 http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/#comment-22651 Erin, I couldn't help but notice that there was a word missing from your post - "church". Do you belong to a Bible believing/preaching church? I don't mean attend, I mean BELONG to. This is how believers seek and follow the will of God - by obeying Christ's specific commands in scripture and then using those biblical principles to prayerfully make biblical decisions about what's not specific. Have you committed yourself to what scripture specifically commands of you? We are commanded to pray and we're commanded to be under scripture's authority (1 Tim 4:13; 2 Tim 3:16). And this is why I ask about church - there's plenty of scripture specifically regarding Christians committing to and submitting to the local church (Eph 5:21, for example). We are to submit to our elders/pastors (Heb 13:17). These aren't suggestions: Christians are to be committed to the church. If you knew that cohabitation is at least "considered a sin", and you are in a church, shouldn't you approach your pastor or an elder for biblical counsel about this before making a decision? (and if you find a pastor who has no problem with cohabitation, run!) As far as love covering a multitude of sins (1 Peter 4:8), that does not mean it looks the other way. Scripture also says that love confronts sin and urges repentance (James 5:20 for example). Love confronts sin in order to "win our brother" (Matthew 18:15-17). We don't honor marriage by giving it a test drive; we honor it by taking it seriously and committing it and ourselves to God. Jesus said a man would leave his mother and father to cleave to his wife (Matt 19:5). Clearly this is marriage - marriage instituted by and before God (Matt 19:6) - not living together. Marriage is a picture of Christ's love for the church. That's a pretty serious love. Jesus sacrificed Himself for the church. Husband and wife sacrifice themselves to become one. And we should love, protect and honor marriage the same way that Jesus does His Bride. Jesus didn't do a trial run to see if this church thing was going to work out. We shouldn't treat marriage that way either. Erin,
I couldn’t help but notice that there was a word missing from your post – “church”. Do you belong to a Bible believing/preaching church? I don’t mean attend, I mean BELONG to.

This is how believers seek and follow the will of God – by obeying Christ’s specific commands in scripture and then using those biblical principles to prayerfully make biblical decisions about what’s not specific. Have you committed yourself to what scripture specifically commands of you? We are commanded to pray and we’re commanded to be under scripture’s authority (1 Tim 4:13; 2 Tim 3:16).

And this is why I ask about church – there’s plenty of scripture specifically regarding Christians committing to and submitting to the local church (Eph 5:21, for example). We are to submit to our elders/pastors (Heb 13:17). These aren’t suggestions: Christians are to be committed to the church.

If you knew that cohabitation is at least “considered a sin”, and you are in a church, shouldn’t you approach your pastor or an elder for biblical counsel about this before making a decision? (and if you find a pastor who has no problem with cohabitation, run!)

As far as love covering a multitude of sins (1 Peter 4:8), that does not mean it looks the other way. Scripture also says that love confronts sin and urges repentance (James 5:20 for example). Love confronts sin in order to “win our brother” (Matthew 18:15-17).

We don’t honor marriage by giving it a test drive; we honor it by taking it seriously and committing it and ourselves to God. Jesus said a man would leave his mother and father to cleave to his wife (Matt 19:5). Clearly this is marriage – marriage instituted by and before God (Matt 19:6) – not living together.

Marriage is a picture of Christ’s love for the church. That’s a pretty serious love. Jesus sacrificed Himself for the church. Husband and wife sacrifice themselves to become one. And we should love, protect and honor marriage the same way that Jesus does His Bride. Jesus didn’t do a trial run to see if this church thing was going to work out. We shouldn’t treat marriage that way either.

]]> By: Erin Mariee http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/#comment-22634 Erin Mariee Mon, 05 Dec 2011 20:48:48 +0000 http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/#comment-22634 Dear Ray, I am a month away from nineteen years old and a freshman in college. A full on Christian, so is my fiancee. My fiancee is nineteen and we both worship God as if He is standing right in front of us. We live together. Both of our families are wonderful people, they too are strong believers in Christ and gave us permission to live together. Is that wrong? We have been living together for about two months. We have had our fights and little tantrums like every couple, But we have worked passed all of them with communication and prayed asking God to help us with or differences, that we may over come everything, and we have. When we first moved in everything was "perfect." A few weeks later we began to fight. Every time we would fight we would go to separate rooms and cool down and think things through. (I am a strong believer that when people are mad they just say things out of the blue to get a rise out of the other person.) Anywho, once we were ready we would text the other person and tell them that you are ready to talk. So we would sit on the couch and communicate without raising any voices and without blaming the other person. This has helped us out a lot. It has been two weeks and we have not fought once. We pray before every meal. We read Scriptures every night to one another before bed every night and pray and give thanks too before bed. We know that this is considered a sin. But we do not want a divorce. We feel that this is kind of a test run with a wedding coming. But we can save all of the heart ache and wasted time. We see it as divorce costs a lot of money and can make people greedy and we do not want to bring that out in each other. Both of our families and us feel that this is a good thing. We also see it as if we love each other we will live a happy life. What is a couple of years living together before marriage, when we are going to spend eternity with each other? If anything it will make our relationship stronger, and our relationship with God so much more stronger. 1 Peter 4:8 "Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins." -If living together is a sin. As long as we love each other deeply, love covers over a multitude of sins. 1Corinthians 6:9-10 “Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolators, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers-none of these will inherit the kingdom of God” -When living together you are not fornicating (sexual intercourse between unmarried persons) we are not having sex. -We are not idolators (a person who does not acknowledge your god) we acknowledge God. -We are not adulterers (cheating, basically.) we DO NOT cheat on each other. -He is not a male prostitute. -We are not sodomite (a person whose behavior deviates from what is acceptable especially in sexual behavior) we are not sexual in anyway towards one another. -We are not thieves (steal what is not rightfully yours from another person) we do not steal. -We are not greedy (Wanting to eat or drink more than one can reasonably consume; gluttonous) we actually go without if we don't have it. -We are not drunkards (someone that drinks all of the time) we do not drink. We won't drink even if we are at age to do so. -We are not revilers (To use abusive language) we do not curse or use abusive language. -We are not robbers (To take property from (a person) illegally by using or threatening to use violence or force; commit robbery upon.) we do not take other peoples things. We are content with what we have and what do not have. There is nothing that states that living together is a crime in Gods eye, unless you commit fornicators, idolators, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbery. If this is true. What is wrong with living together? I read the passages that you posted, but there are also passages that differ. My fiancee has literal conversations with God. I am not that close with Him but I am very close with Him. Our relationship is not only with my fiancee and I, it is with God too. We are engaged to God per say and will marry Him in the future as well, per say. Does our relationship with God mean nothing if we live together? Even though our Heavenly Father is right there with us? Not only do we have Faith in each other, we put our Faith in God. Sincerely, Erin Mariee Dear Ray,
I am a month away from nineteen years old and a freshman in college. A full on Christian, so is my fiancee. My fiancee is nineteen and we both worship God as if He is standing right in front of us. We live together. Both of our families are wonderful people, they too are strong believers in Christ and gave us permission to live together. Is that wrong? We have been living together for about two months. We have had our fights and little tantrums like every couple, But we have worked passed all of them with communication and prayed asking God to help us with or differences, that we may over come everything, and we have.
When we first moved in everything was “perfect.” A few weeks later we began to fight. Every time we would fight we would go to separate rooms and cool down and think things through. (I am a strong believer that when people are mad they just say things out of the blue to get a rise out of the other person.) Anywho, once we were ready we would text the other person and tell them that you are ready to talk. So we would sit on the couch and communicate without raising any voices and without blaming the other person. This has helped us out a lot. It has been two weeks and we have not fought once.
We pray before every meal. We read Scriptures every night to one another before bed every night and pray and give thanks too before bed.
We know that this is considered a sin. But we do not want a divorce. We feel that this is kind of a test run with a wedding coming. But we can save all of the heart ache and wasted time. We see it as divorce costs a lot of money and can make people greedy and we do not want to bring that out in each other. Both of our families and us feel that this is a good thing. We also see it as if we love each other we will live a happy life. What is a couple of years living together before marriage, when we are going to spend eternity with each other? If anything it will make our relationship stronger, and our relationship with God so much more stronger.

1 Peter 4:8
“Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.”

-If living together is a sin. As long as we love each other deeply, love covers over a multitude of sins.

1Corinthians 6:9-10
“Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolators, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers-none of these will inherit the kingdom of God”

-When living together you are not fornicating (sexual intercourse between unmarried persons) we are not having sex.
-We are not idolators (a person who does not acknowledge your god) we acknowledge God.
-We are not adulterers (cheating, basically.) we DO NOT cheat on each other.
-He is not a male prostitute.
-We are not sodomite (a person whose behavior deviates from what is acceptable especially in sexual behavior) we are not sexual in anyway towards one another.
-We are not thieves (steal what is not rightfully yours from another person) we do not steal.
-We are not greedy (Wanting to eat or drink more than one can reasonably consume; gluttonous) we actually go without if we don’t have it.
-We are not drunkards (someone that drinks all of the time) we do not drink. We won’t drink even if we are at age to do so.
-We are not revilers (To use abusive language) we do not curse or use abusive language.
-We are not robbers (To take property from (a person) illegally by using or threatening to use violence or force; commit robbery upon.) we do not take other peoples things. We are content with what we have and what do not have.

There is nothing that states that living together is a crime in Gods eye, unless you commit fornicators, idolators, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbery.

If this is true. What is wrong with living together? I read the passages that you posted, but there are also passages that differ.

My fiancee has literal conversations with God. I am not that close with Him but I am very close with Him. Our relationship is not only with my fiancee and I, it is with God too. We are engaged to God per say and will marry Him in the future as well, per say. Does our relationship with God mean nothing if we live together? Even though our Heavenly Father is right there with us? Not only do we have Faith in each other, we put our Faith in God.

Sincerely,
Erin Mariee

]]> By: sheril http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/#comment-22625 sheril Mon, 21 Nov 2011 00:38:18 +0000 http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/#comment-22625 Hello part 1 I am commenting on living together beforebefore marriage. I was married before and pregnat with twins and had a 1 16 month old child. I came homw and foundmy hubby sleeping with a 14 year old. I eneded up going into labor with twins.I prayed for 2 years to have a boy and one of the twins was a boy..I got a divorce several years later got married a 2nd time to get custody of a child he didn't pass. And hethreaten me and wanted to kill me divorce 2. After 2 horrid ones who could think of marriage again I lived alone for a year and prayed I mett a nice guy my kids are grown now and his are not.. I pray to god every day and every night and he blesses me. I feel god knows those who love the person they are withand when they promise each other out loud I will saty with u till I dye it means something. The problem with marriage is when it goes bad and u give all u had up you can get halled into court and have to pay bills at a place u ont live at and one can take your car wreck it go the insurance company get 3000 for your car and walk off with the money.. I feel if poeple are living together and having sex without being in love than its different than 2 pople living together who love each other God knows peoples hearts. The guy I am with wife wanted another child he said we have 3 allready I don't want to be. 65 and have teenagers at home so when he was at work she cheated on him got prgnat by another man so he was with her 17 years only person he was with before me we both stayed single alone seeing no one for a year talked along time before even meeting. Hello part 1
I am commenting on living together beforebefore marriage. I was married before and pregnat with twins and had a 1 16 month old child. I came homw and foundmy hubby sleeping with a 14 year old. I eneded up going into labor with twins.I prayed for 2 years to have a boy and one of the twins was a boy..I got a divorce several years later got married a 2nd time to get custody of a child he didn’t pass. And hethreaten me and wanted to kill me divorce 2. After 2 horrid ones who could think of marriage again I lived alone for a year and prayed I mett a nice guy my kids are grown now and his are not.. I pray to god every day and every night and he blesses me. I feel god knows those who love the person they are withand when they promise each other out loud I will saty with u till I dye it means something. The problem with marriage is when it goes bad and u give all u had up you can get halled into court and have to pay bills at a place u ont live at and one can take your car wreck it go the insurance company get 3000 for your car and walk off with the money.. I feel if poeple are living together and having sex without being in love than its different than 2 pople living together who love each other God knows peoples hearts. The guy I am with wife wanted another child he said we have 3 allready I don’t want to be. 65 and have teenagers at home so when he was at work she cheated on him got prgnat by another man so he was with her 17 years only person he was with before me we both stayed single alone seeing no one for a year talked along time before even meeting.

]]> By: Adam http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/#comment-22607 Adam Fri, 28 Oct 2011 23:55:20 +0000 http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/#comment-22607 About a year ago my brother became a believer in the gospel of Jesus Christ and I have seen him grow in Christ except for one thing. He is living with his girlfriend and refuses to get married saying he 'feels" married in his heart and God will accept it. That is not what scripture says and I tried showing him the different verses supporting marriage and condemning fornication. He seems comfortable believing everything is good and he is not committing a sin simply because he feels married to this one person and is only having sex with one person. What is your perspective on this? About a year ago my brother became a believer in the gospel of Jesus Christ and I have seen him grow in Christ except for one thing. He is living with his girlfriend and refuses to get married saying he ‘feels” married in his heart and God will accept it. That is not what scripture says and I tried showing him the different verses supporting marriage and condemning fornication. He seems comfortable believing everything is good and he is not committing a sin simply because he feels married to this one person and is only having sex with one person. What is your perspective on this?

]]> By: Stacy http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/#comment-22605 Stacy Fri, 28 Oct 2011 13:00:22 +0000 http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/#comment-22605 okay, I am a bit confused. None of this says " do not live together before marriage" it says " dont act on your sexualy urges" I am sick of hearing that it isnt right to live with your soon to be spouse before getting marriage, because it is not biblically founded! the bible tells you to be a wife to him except the ways that bare children so how can you do that when your not there?! this is frustrating to me and i dont understand, all of this is about sexxual morallity not living with them! okay, I am a bit confused. None of this says ” do not live together before marriage” it says ” dont act on your sexualy urges” I am sick of hearing that it isnt right to live with your soon to be spouse before getting marriage, because it is not biblically founded! the bible tells you to be a wife to him except the ways that bare children so how can you do that when your not there?! this is frustrating to me and i dont understand, all of this is about sexxual morallity not living with them!

]]> By: Jill http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/#comment-22601 Jill Wed, 26 Oct 2011 14:48:38 +0000 http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/#comment-22601 I wish I would have found this blog a month ago. Ray, I know you are not able to get to the questions as frequently as you'd like right now, but I'm going to put this out there anyway. I recently moved in with my boyfriend (more for financial reasons than anything). My house was on the market and sold faster than I had expected. I couldn't find a place on such short notice and moving in with by bf only seemed logical. To be honest, I really dont know how I feel about it. I don't feel guilty, but I also don't feel good about it either. You see, I was previously married for six years and after finding out my husband was having multiple affairs, we divorced. I truly trusted God through the entire process and was amazed at how he pulled me through. Then after a year, I met my bf and feel very lucky to have him in my life. But it's different this time. I feel like I did everything right the first time around: abstained from sex, waited to live together before marriage,etc. And now I truly wonder what matters? After being married, I'm obviously no longer a virgin. What does God say about all of this after you've already been married? After my marriage, I kind of just feel used and feel differently about so many things because I can't ever again be a virgin. After the lies and unfaithfulness in my marriage, I have to say, living together before marriage doesn't sound like such a bad idea... I wish I would have found this blog a month ago. Ray, I know you are not able to get to the questions as frequently as you’d like right now, but I’m going to put this out there anyway. I recently moved in with my boyfriend (more for financial reasons than anything). My house was on the market and sold faster than I had expected. I couldn’t find a place on such short notice and moving in with by bf only seemed logical. To be honest, I really dont know how I feel about it. I don’t feel guilty, but I also don’t feel good about it either.

You see, I was previously married for six years and after finding out my husband was having multiple affairs, we divorced. I truly trusted God through the entire process and was amazed at how he pulled me through. Then after a year, I met my bf and feel very lucky to have him in my life. But it’s different this time. I feel like I did everything right the first time around: abstained from sex, waited to live together before marriage,etc. And now I truly wonder what matters? After being married, I’m obviously no longer a virgin. What does God say about all of this after you’ve already been married? After my marriage, I kind of just feel used and feel differently about so many things because I can’t ever again be a virgin. After the lies and unfaithfulness in my marriage, I have to say, living together before marriage doesn’t sound like such a bad idea…

]]> By: Katie http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/#comment-22533 Katie Mon, 03 Oct 2011 10:41:58 +0000 http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/#comment-22533 Ray, My boyfriend of three years recently has gone on a life cleansing. I am in full support of all the changes he has moved towards. For some time now he has this gut feeling that we should not live together. He has made comments that he does not feel that it is right in God's eyes. At first i did not agree with him and questioned his mindset on the whole issue.The one thing that does make me question his intentions was he has no reservations about sex before marriage and to me that is the real issue at hand. If anything as a Christian I would be more compelled to end the intimate part of the relationship first and foremost. I stumbled upon your blog in a google search and have since changed my mind. My questions is now how do we go forth( taking a step back to move forward the correct way) from here? It is a very delicate situation because we do not want our relationship to end. I feel a bit weary of some discions we have made. I want to make it right. Any suggestions? Ray,
My boyfriend of three years recently has gone on a life cleansing. I am in full support of all the changes he has moved towards. For some time now he has this gut feeling that we should not live together. He has made comments that he does not feel that it is right in God’s eyes. At first i did not agree with him and questioned his mindset on the whole issue.The one thing that does make me question his intentions was he has no reservations about sex before marriage and to me that is the real issue at hand. If anything as a Christian I would be more compelled to end the intimate part of the relationship first and foremost. I stumbled upon your blog in a google search and have since changed my mind. My questions is now how do we go forth( taking a step back to move forward the correct way) from here? It is a very delicate situation because we do not want our relationship to end. I feel a bit weary of some discions we have made. I want to make it right. Any suggestions?

]]> By: Ray Fowler http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/#comment-22495 Ray Fowler Sat, 17 Sep 2011 03:29:31 +0000 http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/05/21/scriptures-on-living-together-before-marriage/#comment-22495 Hello all, thank you so much for your comments and questions. I apologize I have not been able to respond to them all. I am in a different season of life right now and unable to be as fully involved in this blog as in the past. Thanks for understanding. Ray Fowler Hello all, thank you so much for your comments and questions. I apologize I have not been able to respond to them all. I am in a different season of life right now and unable to be as fully involved in this blog as in the past. Thanks for understanding.

Ray Fowler

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