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	<title>Comments on: The Golden Compass vs. Narnia Box Office Results</title>
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	<description>Thoughts on God and life from a Christian perspective</description>
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		<title>By: Ray Fowler</title>
		<link>http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/12/10/the-golden-compass-vs-narnia-box-office-results/#comment-7945</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Fowler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;b&gt;Jenn&lt;/b&gt; - No offence taken at all.  I appreciate the points you are raising.  Thank you for taking the time to share.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Jenn</b> &#8211; No offence taken at all.  I appreciate the points you are raising.  Thank you for taking the time to share.  <img src='http://www.rayfowler.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jenn</title>
		<link>http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/12/10/the-golden-compass-vs-narnia-box-office-results/#comment-7944</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/12/10/the-golden-compass-vs-narnia-box-office-results/#comment-7944</guid>
		<description>point well taken.
Sorry if I offended.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>point well taken.<br />
Sorry if I offended.</p>
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		<title>By: Jenn</title>
		<link>http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/12/10/the-golden-compass-vs-narnia-box-office-results/#comment-7943</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/12/10/the-golden-compass-vs-narnia-box-office-results/#comment-7943</guid>
		<description>about the faith/no faith/science thing...
The book isn&#039;t about not having faith. These people have faith. the book takes place in a different world, God does in full form exist in this world. 

It&#039;s &quot;anti-Christian&quot; perspective lies in its anti-Orthodox view of a semi-Jewish/Christian god. The God in the book does not take on the same form that we as Christians would like to see. It is uncomfortable but one must understand that it is about another take on the faith, not about God not existing or something like that. It is more of a ancient Jewish mysticism approach to God (which I may remind you was closer to its roots) God is not good or evil, he is a vengeful powerful Character (think old testament) his angels are servants (which is where the root of the angel &#039;myth&#039; came from.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>about the faith/no faith/science thing&#8230;<br />
The book isn&#8217;t about not having faith. These people have faith. the book takes place in a different world, God does in full form exist in this world. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s &#8220;anti-Christian&#8221; perspective lies in its anti-Orthodox view of a semi-Jewish/Christian god. The God in the book does not take on the same form that we as Christians would like to see. It is uncomfortable but one must understand that it is about another take on the faith, not about God not existing or something like that. It is more of a ancient Jewish mysticism approach to God (which I may remind you was closer to its roots) God is not good or evil, he is a vengeful powerful Character (think old testament) his angels are servants (which is where the root of the angel &#8216;myth&#8217; came from.)</p>
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		<title>By: jenn</title>
		<link>http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/12/10/the-golden-compass-vs-narnia-box-office-results/#comment-7941</link>
		<dc:creator>jenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/12/10/the-golden-compass-vs-narnia-box-office-results/#comment-7941</guid>
		<description>To Bethany,

The reason most of the things seem so disjointed are because the movies was the retelling of the first book, which is essentially the first volume of a continuous story. Trying to split it into three completely separate stories doesn&#039;t really work, you sort of have to take all three as a whole. So of course the story seemed to have a hodge-podge overarching plot.

I understand your comments and also felt that the movie was a little too CG and jumpy, the book is this way too but because it is a book it doesn&#039;t feel wrong. Much like LOTR, they move from a forest with trees to a mountain with spiders etc, it is because you first read the books that it doesn&#039;t seem jumpy.

Anyways the other GC books don&#039;t seem to be being movieified and I don&#039;t suggest that you read the book if you are against the anti-Christian fantasy literature thing. Reading fantasy is for enjoyment and should be done for that reason.

Anyways this isn&#039;t meant to be crass. I like your comments and they made me think again about how good the movie actually was, it reminded me that one of the reasons I liked the movie so much was because I LOVE the books. Much like Harry Potter the books are better, the movies are good mostly because we get to see the things we read in &#039;real life.&#039;

Ok enough of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Bethany,</p>
<p>The reason most of the things seem so disjointed are because the movies was the retelling of the first book, which is essentially the first volume of a continuous story. Trying to split it into three completely separate stories doesn&#8217;t really work, you sort of have to take all three as a whole. So of course the story seemed to have a hodge-podge overarching plot.</p>
<p>I understand your comments and also felt that the movie was a little too CG and jumpy, the book is this way too but because it is a book it doesn&#8217;t feel wrong. Much like LOTR, they move from a forest with trees to a mountain with spiders etc, it is because you first read the books that it doesn&#8217;t seem jumpy.</p>
<p>Anyways the other GC books don&#8217;t seem to be being movieified and I don&#8217;t suggest that you read the book if you are against the anti-Christian fantasy literature thing. Reading fantasy is for enjoyment and should be done for that reason.</p>
<p>Anyways this isn&#8217;t meant to be crass. I like your comments and they made me think again about how good the movie actually was, it reminded me that one of the reasons I liked the movie so much was because I LOVE the books. Much like Harry Potter the books are better, the movies are good mostly because we get to see the things we read in &#8216;real life.&#8217;</p>
<p>Ok enough of that.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray Fowler</title>
		<link>http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/12/10/the-golden-compass-vs-narnia-box-office-results/#comment-7942</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Fowler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/12/10/the-golden-compass-vs-narnia-box-office-results/#comment-7942</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Jenn&lt;/b&gt; - Thanks for commenting.  Both your points are well-taken.  However, I still think the anti-religious content of the books had the biggest impact on its lack of success at the box office.  I had never heard of the Golden Compass when I first saw the trailer in the movie theaters.  My first reaction was positive, and I was already thinking of bringing my family.  Then when I learned more what the books were about and the author&#039;s stated intention in his books, I lost interest.  I think there were lots of families like mine that were more than ready for another great fantasy movie but were turned off by the anti-religious themes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Jenn</b> &#8211; Thanks for commenting.  Both your points are well-taken.  However, I still think the anti-religious content of the books had the biggest impact on its lack of success at the box office.  I had never heard of the Golden Compass when I first saw the trailer in the movie theaters.  My first reaction was positive, and I was already thinking of bringing my family.  Then when I learned more what the books were about and the author&#8217;s stated intention in his books, I lost interest.  I think there were lots of families like mine that were more than ready for another great fantasy movie but were turned off by the anti-religious themes.</p>
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		<title>By: Jenn</title>
		<link>http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/12/10/the-golden-compass-vs-narnia-box-office-results/#comment-7940</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/12/10/the-golden-compass-vs-narnia-box-office-results/#comment-7940</guid>
		<description>I think your leaving out two key points. Golden compass did not do so well in sales because: 
a) LOTR and Narnia are both much older books, they have a following and people remember them from their childhoods. Harry Potter has a following because it became a fad. Although Golden Compass was a best seller etc. it is also true that it wasn&#039;t so much of a large scale fad as any of these others. 
b)Golden Compass was the last of these great fantasy movies to come out. Everyone who saw the trailers and who had not previously read the books saw the movie to be a copy of others. They saw it to be just another movie trying to ride on the tail feathers of other magical world movies. We see this pattern in other things as well. For example, how many vampire related movies tv shows and books have started only because of the popularity of Twilight.

Personally I enjoyed the book of Golden compass much more than any of these other books, except perhaps LOTR. I found it much deeper than Harry Potter. More simple than LOTR (which isn&#039;t necessarily better but from a children&#039;s standpoint...) and I don&#039;t know why I disliked Narnia, I guess I have no excuse there, I just found it didn&#039;t keep my interest.

As for the movies we don&#039;t have to worry about the complexity of the language, LOTR is almost as accessible to children as Harry Potter. 

It is therefore sad that there will be no more His Dark Material movies. The story is no where near complete. For Golden Compass is not like Narnia where you can tell one section and not another. It is in essence three volumes of the same book. We will never really see the true climax to the story (nor even the beginning of its complexity) on the big screen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your leaving out two key points. Golden compass did not do so well in sales because:<br />
a) LOTR and Narnia are both much older books, they have a following and people remember them from their childhoods. Harry Potter has a following because it became a fad. Although Golden Compass was a best seller etc. it is also true that it wasn&#8217;t so much of a large scale fad as any of these others.<br />
b)Golden Compass was the last of these great fantasy movies to come out. Everyone who saw the trailers and who had not previously read the books saw the movie to be a copy of others. They saw it to be just another movie trying to ride on the tail feathers of other magical world movies. We see this pattern in other things as well. For example, how many vampire related movies tv shows and books have started only because of the popularity of Twilight.</p>
<p>Personally I enjoyed the book of Golden compass much more than any of these other books, except perhaps LOTR. I found it much deeper than Harry Potter. More simple than LOTR (which isn&#8217;t necessarily better but from a children&#8217;s standpoint&#8230;) and I don&#8217;t know why I disliked Narnia, I guess I have no excuse there, I just found it didn&#8217;t keep my interest.</p>
<p>As for the movies we don&#8217;t have to worry about the complexity of the language, LOTR is almost as accessible to children as Harry Potter. </p>
<p>It is therefore sad that there will be no more His Dark Material movies. The story is no where near complete. For Golden Compass is not like Narnia where you can tell one section and not another. It is in essence three volumes of the same book. We will never really see the true climax to the story (nor even the beginning of its complexity) on the big screen.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray Fowler</title>
		<link>http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/12/10/the-golden-compass-vs-narnia-box-office-results/#comment-7762</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Fowler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 17:09:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/12/10/the-golden-compass-vs-narnia-box-office-results/#comment-7762</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Corey&lt;/b&gt; I have not read The Golden Compass (nor seen the movie), but I can see why people who view religion as something negative would probably be drawn more towards Compass then Narnia.  However, I don&#039;t think you can break it down into categories of science versus faith.  I&#039;m a science guy, too, but I also have faith.  Perhaps faith and non-faith are better categories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Corey</b> I have not read The Golden Compass (nor seen the movie), but I can see why people who view religion as something negative would probably be drawn more towards Compass then Narnia.  However, I don&#8217;t think you can break it down into categories of science versus faith.  I&#8217;m a science guy, too, but I also have faith.  Perhaps faith and non-faith are better categories.</p>
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		<title>By: Corey Stewart</title>
		<link>http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/12/10/the-golden-compass-vs-narnia-box-office-results/#comment-7758</link>
		<dc:creator>Corey Stewart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 07:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/12/10/the-golden-compass-vs-narnia-box-office-results/#comment-7758</guid>
		<description>Narnia is a christian overtone, the Golden Compass is an attempt to show the ways religion controls and how it&#039;s fear-based. It&#039;s usually if you&#039;re a christian or atheist, science vs faith. I&#039;m a science guy, so I lean all the way for Compass. The sun is the beginning of all religions in my opinion and everything else is political and unhealthy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Narnia is a christian overtone, the Golden Compass is an attempt to show the ways religion controls and how it&#8217;s fear-based. It&#8217;s usually if you&#8217;re a christian or atheist, science vs faith. I&#8217;m a science guy, so I lean all the way for Compass. The sun is the beginning of all religions in my opinion and everything else is political and unhealthy!</p>
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		<title>By: Ray Fowler</title>
		<link>http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/12/10/the-golden-compass-vs-narnia-box-office-results/#comment-5369</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Fowler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 23:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/12/10/the-golden-compass-vs-narnia-box-office-results/#comment-5369</guid>
		<description>Great comments, Bethany.  Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great comments, Bethany.  Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Bethany</title>
		<link>http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/12/10/the-golden-compass-vs-narnia-box-office-results/#comment-5361</link>
		<dc:creator>Bethany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 16:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rayfowler.org/2007/12/10/the-golden-compass-vs-narnia-box-office-results/#comment-5361</guid>
		<description>Fun reading all these comments.  I&#039;m jumping in because I just watched The Golden Compass on DVD with my son. (Age 19) We so rarely watch movies together as our tastes are totally different, so when he asked me to join him I was happy to oblige.  

A few thoughts...

First, I am a great fan of Tolkien, Lewis, and the Harry Potter series, having read them all multiple times, and seen the movies as well.  I had read that the Pullman series was specifically written as a counterpoint to, and even an attack on &quot;Christian&quot; based fantasy, and wasn&#039;t really interested. 

 Tolkien certainly has powerful Christian themes, though is not a direct allegory and each time I read the books (less so with the movies) I am moved to think deeply on good/evil, sin and its lure, human frailty and divine love, and more.  It strengthens my faith both emotionally and intellectually.

Lewis is my hands-down favorite of the three, at least for the books.  The movies are fun, but lack the depth of the books (at least the first two). And, the Aslan is still too stiff and clearly CGI for me.

The Harry Potter books are an interesting contrast.  Many Christians oppose them for the magic involved and yet Rowling herself claims to be a Christian and there are many Christian themes (though I cringe when I hear some compare Harry to a Christ figure - that is a little over the top, I think.)  There are many doctrinal issues that are addressed in a new light in the Potter books that, again, have caused me to think and re-think, including free will/fate, good vs. evil, the temptation to justify our actions to ourselves, sacrifice, the power of love, and the celebration of simple things over dark, mysteries. 

I particularly love Dumbledore&#039;s beautiful exposition on free will vs. predestination. (Spoiler here maybe.)  When Harry asks if he has no choice whether he must face Voldemort, Dumbledore explains that, no, he really has no choice.  Things have been set into place that can only properly end with such a confrontation.  But Harry has a choice as to how he will face him - boldly, with purpose, or to be pulled into it cowering and fearful.  So yes, there is free will and also &quot;divine&quot; predestiny.

And now to The Golden Compass. (Possibly spoilers here too). I have not read the book, so probably my reactions to the movie are not entirely fair, but I found it disjointed, jumping about, and light on ideas.  The heroine goes back and forth between speaking proper English, to a sort of Cockney bad-grammar, and there is little consistency, which I found annoying.

The &quot;big fight&quot; between the ice bears was all CGI, and therefore lacked depth.  At least in LOTR/Narnia/Potter there are enough real-life humans mixed with the CGI to prevent the feeling of watching a video game.  And the deep love which the young girls feels for her ice-bear friend is just assumed, not properly developed. The actress shows concern and compassion, but we never got to see this friendship become real - the movie just introduced it and kept moving. 

Finally, I did find the overarching themes to be lacking.  Whether intentional or not, an anti-&quot;something&quot; is only a copy, not an original.  GC felt more like an anti-Narnia than a true story that could stand on its own.  Perhaps the movie was more simplistic than the book, but its twist on the girl in the closet/wardrobe, and its re-orientation of North/good in Narnia/ North/bad in GC seemed too obvious. Also witch/bad in Narnia, witch/good in GC.

It did seem to emphasize a disregard for authority and to reject claims of absolute truth, the first of which isn&#039;t directly against Christianity, and the second of which, clearly is.  But after rejecting absolute truth (in the guise of the Magesterium) it presented its own absolute truth, in the Compass, which again seemed disingenuous.

I could go on, but jeepers, look how much I&#039;ve written.  I love Christ, books, fantasy literature, and good movies, so all of these together was too strong a combo to resist.

Happy 4th everyone!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fun reading all these comments.  I&#8217;m jumping in because I just watched The Golden Compass on DVD with my son. (Age 19) We so rarely watch movies together as our tastes are totally different, so when he asked me to join him I was happy to oblige.  </p>
<p>A few thoughts&#8230;</p>
<p>First, I am a great fan of Tolkien, Lewis, and the Harry Potter series, having read them all multiple times, and seen the movies as well.  I had read that the Pullman series was specifically written as a counterpoint to, and even an attack on &#8220;Christian&#8221; based fantasy, and wasn&#8217;t really interested. </p>
<p> Tolkien certainly has powerful Christian themes, though is not a direct allegory and each time I read the books (less so with the movies) I am moved to think deeply on good/evil, sin and its lure, human frailty and divine love, and more.  It strengthens my faith both emotionally and intellectually.</p>
<p>Lewis is my hands-down favorite of the three, at least for the books.  The movies are fun, but lack the depth of the books (at least the first two). And, the Aslan is still too stiff and clearly CGI for me.</p>
<p>The Harry Potter books are an interesting contrast.  Many Christians oppose them for the magic involved and yet Rowling herself claims to be a Christian and there are many Christian themes (though I cringe when I hear some compare Harry to a Christ figure &#8211; that is a little over the top, I think.)  There are many doctrinal issues that are addressed in a new light in the Potter books that, again, have caused me to think and re-think, including free will/fate, good vs. evil, the temptation to justify our actions to ourselves, sacrifice, the power of love, and the celebration of simple things over dark, mysteries. </p>
<p>I particularly love Dumbledore&#8217;s beautiful exposition on free will vs. predestination. (Spoiler here maybe.)  When Harry asks if he has no choice whether he must face Voldemort, Dumbledore explains that, no, he really has no choice.  Things have been set into place that can only properly end with such a confrontation.  But Harry has a choice as to how he will face him &#8211; boldly, with purpose, or to be pulled into it cowering and fearful.  So yes, there is free will and also &#8220;divine&#8221; predestiny.</p>
<p>And now to The Golden Compass. (Possibly spoilers here too). I have not read the book, so probably my reactions to the movie are not entirely fair, but I found it disjointed, jumping about, and light on ideas.  The heroine goes back and forth between speaking proper English, to a sort of Cockney bad-grammar, and there is little consistency, which I found annoying.</p>
<p>The &#8220;big fight&#8221; between the ice bears was all CGI, and therefore lacked depth.  At least in LOTR/Narnia/Potter there are enough real-life humans mixed with the CGI to prevent the feeling of watching a video game.  And the deep love which the young girls feels for her ice-bear friend is just assumed, not properly developed. The actress shows concern and compassion, but we never got to see this friendship become real &#8211; the movie just introduced it and kept moving. </p>
<p>Finally, I did find the overarching themes to be lacking.  Whether intentional or not, an anti-&#8221;something&#8221; is only a copy, not an original.  GC felt more like an anti-Narnia than a true story that could stand on its own.  Perhaps the movie was more simplistic than the book, but its twist on the girl in the closet/wardrobe, and its re-orientation of North/good in Narnia/ North/bad in GC seemed too obvious. Also witch/bad in Narnia, witch/good in GC.</p>
<p>It did seem to emphasize a disregard for authority and to reject claims of absolute truth, the first of which isn&#8217;t directly against Christianity, and the second of which, clearly is.  But after rejecting absolute truth (in the guise of the Magesterium) it presented its own absolute truth, in the Compass, which again seemed disingenuous.</p>
<p>I could go on, but jeepers, look how much I&#8217;ve written.  I love Christ, books, fantasy literature, and good movies, so all of these together was too strong a combo to resist.</p>
<p>Happy 4th everyone!</p>
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